4 ms·

While I - as a Canadian - am not a HUGE fan of America(nothing personal, just spoiled in the great North), I find it more than a little hypocritical for China t

by jefe78 14y ago

While I - as a Canadian - am not a HUGE fan of America(nothing personal, just spoiled in the great North), I find it more than a little hypocritical for China to be pointing the finger at anyone for these types of things. Which isn't to say that fingers shouldn't be pointed. But maybe countries should start pointing them at themselves first? Look inwards and fix your own problems.

mukaiji 14y ago
But that's the exact point they want to make regarding the U.S. pointing the finger at everyone else without first trying to fix itself.
- jefe78 14y ago
  Agreed. I'm not disputing that. I don't think America is actively trying to not 'fix itself'. I often wonder if some of its efforts are misguided, but I do believe there is a genuine effort. This is just China's way of saying, "You've got problems too, fix your house before pointing fingers."
  - DasIch 14y ago
    The NDAA has just passed a couple of months ago, Guantanamo still exists... The US is actively and obviously violating human rights. I don't see how one could possibly get the idea that there even is the wish to seriously mitigate those violations let alone a genuine effort to do anything about it, quite the opposite actually. Bush managed to give the US a reputation in Europe that is almost on par with Russia and China. Why do you think that is?
gcb 14y ago
And thieves should just turn themselves in. ...Canadians (but yes, conceptually you're right)
- jefe78 14y ago
  Realistically, they won't. But ideally, they should. Wouldn't that be a lovely world? Damn Canadians and their happy thoughts... :)
- pyre 14y ago
  > And thieves should just turn themselves in. Countries are made up of many people of differing opinions. If the citizens of a country were all of a single body and mind, then there would be no such thing as a 'political dissident.'
neetij 14y ago
The US govt. doesn't include itself in its annual human rights reports either (see: http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/humanrightsreport/index.htm http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/humanrightsreport/index...).
- jefe78 14y ago
  That strikes me as curious. While I'm certain there is a reasonable explanation, i.e., "This is a report on foreign governments.", it would make sense to include themselves. Why do you suppose that is?
  - batista 14y ago
    Because the American government could not care less about those violations in other countries, and they just issue those papers as propaganda? In fact, if you read your modern world history, America was behind tons of the worst violations in the first place, supporting the regimes that perpetrated them as long as they catered to the US interests. They have setup lots of dictatorships in Latin America for example, they had armed Bin Laden and co, they have best terms with Israel and Saudi Arabia, the had Noriega as their puppet man, they had supported Saddam Hussein (yes, that Saddam) against Iran, they had toppled the democratic government of Iran to install a dictatorship in the sixties, etc etc. If I had the mass genocide of Native Americans, the slavery of blacks, segregation till the '60s, concentration camps for Native Americans and later Japanese, McCarthyism, 2 atomic bombs on civilians, Agent Orange, and medical experiments without their knowledge on latin populations on my hands, I would be too ashamed to publish anything about any other country's "human violations".
    - cpeterso 14y ago
      Don't forget that much of Iran's ire against the US is fallout from the US-backed coup overthrowing Iran's democratically-elected government in the 50s.
dmix 14y ago
Canada needs its own report after mass arresting 400 protestors recently in Montreal and 700 during G20.
- jefe78 14y ago
  Agreed. I'm certainly not condoning that behaviour in any way. I'm merely speaking to the 'China v. America' debate. Just wanted to clarify that.
iharris 14y ago
I agree with your point about not pointing fingers. I do think that this article has value - in the sense that it fosters a frank dialogue about the human-rights records of our own governments. As a dual US/CA citizen currently living in Canada, I think that both nations have made some troubling human-rights violations in recent months with the Occupy protests and G20 summit. While the Chinese article has its flaws, it does make some valid points about hypocrisy in our governments. One thing that especially bothers me is the treatment of the indigenous peoples of North America (Native Americans, aboriginal tribes, whatever term you like). Can we really take the moral "high ground" when bashing China about the Tibet issue? Granted, the Canadian government has made some baby steps towards reconciliation with indigenous tribes in the country, but there's a lot of room for improvement (I am not as up-to-date about the current state of affairs in the US). In essence, none of our governments are perfect, but finger-pointing isn't going to get us anywhere. I think that it's more important for us to look at how we can improve in the future. Having the US include itself in its human-rights report would be a great first step but I seriously doubt that it'll happen.

by jefe78 14y ago

mukaiji 14y ago

But that's the exact point they want to make regarding the U.S. pointing the finger at everyone else without first trying to fix itself.

jefe78 14y ago
Agreed. I'm not disputing that. I don't think America is actively trying to not 'fix itself'. I often wonder if some of its efforts are misguided, but I do believe there is a genuine effort. This is just China's way of saying, "You've got problems too, fix your house before pointing fingers."
- DasIch 14y ago
  The NDAA has just passed a couple of months ago, Guantanamo still exists... The US is actively and obviously violating human rights. I don't see how one could possibly get the idea that there even is the wish to seriously mitigate those violations let alone a genuine effort to do anything about it, quite the opposite actually. Bush managed to give the US a reputation in Europe that is almost on par with Russia and China. Why do you think that is?

gcb 14y ago

And thieves should just turn themselves in. ...Canadians (but yes, conceptually you're right)

jefe78 14y ago
Realistically, they won't. But ideally, they should. Wouldn't that be a lovely world? Damn Canadians and their happy thoughts... :)
pyre 14y ago
> And thieves should just turn themselves in. Countries are made up of many people of differing opinions. If the citizens of a country were all of a single body and mind, then there would be no such thing as a 'political dissident.'

neetij 14y ago

The US govt. doesn't include itself in its annual human rights reports either (see: http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/humanrightsreport/index.htm http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/humanrightsreport/index...).

jefe78 14y ago
That strikes me as curious. While I'm certain there is a reasonable explanation, i.e., "This is a report on foreign governments.", it would make sense to include themselves. Why do you suppose that is?
- batista 14y ago
  Because the American government could not care less about those violations in other countries, and they just issue those papers as propaganda? In fact, if you read your modern world history, America was behind tons of the worst violations in the first place, supporting the regimes that perpetrated them as long as they catered to the US interests. They have setup lots of dictatorships in Latin America for example, they had armed Bin Laden and co, they have best terms with Israel and Saudi Arabia, the had Noriega as their puppet man, they had supported Saddam Hussein (yes, that Saddam) against Iran, they had toppled the democratic government of Iran to install a dictatorship in the sixties, etc etc. If I had the mass genocide of Native Americans, the slavery of blacks, segregation till the '60s, concentration camps for Native Americans and later Japanese, McCarthyism, 2 atomic bombs on civilians, Agent Orange, and medical experiments without their knowledge on latin populations on my hands, I would be too ashamed to publish anything about any other country's "human violations".
  - cpeterso 14y ago
    Don't forget that much of Iran's ire against the US is fallout from the US-backed coup overthrowing Iran's democratically-elected government in the 50s.

dmix 14y ago

Canada needs its own report after mass arresting 400 protestors recently in Montreal and 700 during G20.

jefe78 14y ago
Agreed. I'm certainly not condoning that behaviour in any way. I'm merely speaking to the 'China v. America' debate. Just wanted to clarify that.

iharris 14y ago

I agree with your point about not pointing fingers. I do think that this article has value - in the sense that it fosters a frank dialogue about the human-rights records of our own governments. As a dual US/CA citizen currently living in Canada, I think that both nations have made some troubling human-rights violations in recent months with the Occupy protests and G20 summit. While the Chinese article has its flaws, it does make some valid points about hypocrisy in our governments. One thing that especially bothers me is the treatment of the indigenous peoples of North America (Native Americans, aboriginal tribes, whatever term you like). Can we really take the moral "high ground" when bashing China about the Tibet issue? Granted, the Canadian government has made some baby steps towards reconciliation with indigenous tribes in the country, but there's a lot of room for improvement (I am not as up-to-date about the current state of affairs in the US). In essence, none of our governments are perfect, but finger-pointing isn't going to get us anywhere. I think that it's more important for us to look at how we can improve in the future. Having the US include itself in its human-rights report would be a great first step but I seriously doubt that it'll happen.