4 ms·

I don't really get the value proposition, for every second you spend writing something you spend another 10 verifying that it was done properly. Speeding up the

I don't really get the value proposition, for every second you spend writing something you spend another 10 verifying that it was done properly. Speeding up the process of writing is sort of a waste because of Amdahl's law How does copilot et al. speed up verification and review? For example, a C program is harder to verify than a Go program doing the same thing. Suppose you use it to verify something in an enterprise context. Are you confident in the result? Personally I'm too paranoid for that and I think more people should be

fzeroracer 2y ago
This is where I stand. I think people fall into the trap of believing that it is reliable and useful because it can occasionally spit out boilerplate code that matches what boilerplate code is supposed to look like. Which is a very dangerous place to be in, because the more you assume that the code generated is reliable the more likely hallucinations are to sneak into your codebase. And now you don't have a good mental model of what your code is doing because you didn't actually write any of it. I have a feeling that codebases using and relying on copilot are, essentially, pushing disasters later down the line when bugs pop up and no one has the ability to actually debug the system.
mucle6 2y ago
I am so confused. When I write code, I think "Okay I want to write a for loop that does xyz." How is it hard to know if copilot did or didn't do what you wanted?
- serpix 2y ago
  This is how I've used it: "I want to write a function that reduces a map of customer data to a list of their phone numbers from their primary addresses only or contact address if there is no primary address" and then you look at the resulting flatmap, filter, reduce blob of AI generated code and figure out if what it does is correct for about a minute.
  - alecthomas 2y ago
    This was an illuminating comment because I think I finally understand why people have wildly varying experiences with CoPilot. I think if you regularly use CoPilot to write entire functions or use its prompt mode, you will spend more time verifying its output is accurate than it would save writing the code manually. If instead, you use it iteratively via autocomplete to write small fragments of code, a line or two at a time, its trivial to verify its correctness, and it will save you a good 20-30 seconds at a time, adding up to large savings over time. I exclusively do the latter, so I find it incredibly useful. The few times I've tried using the prompt mode, or comment-driven code generation, it's been very average or awful.
    - mucle6 2y ago
      This makes sense. I just can't imagine how most people hate the autocomplete. If you like a suggestion you hit tab. If not you keep typing.
    - serpix 2y ago
      I use combinations of the two. Sometimes it really is worth it to write a comment on what one is trying to achieve and just let it autocomplete the entire thing. And sometimes just for autocompleting a 'for loop' - a small block of code that one already has in their minds.
noobermin 2y ago
Beware the hype and those pushing the hype, especially when certain entities have wares to sell. While you should keep an open mind within reason, trust your experience and basic reasoning before you throw everything out to buy the snakeoil.

fzeroracer 2y ago

This is where I stand. I think people fall into the trap of believing that it is reliable and useful because it can occasionally spit out boilerplate code that matches what boilerplate code is supposed to look like. Which is a very dangerous place to be in, because the more you assume that the code generated is reliable the more likely hallucinations are to sneak into your codebase. And now you don't have a good mental model of what your code is doing because you didn't actually write any of it. I have a feeling that codebases using and relying on copilot are, essentially, pushing disasters later down the line when bugs pop up and no one has the ability to actually debug the system.

mucle6 2y ago

I am so confused. When I write code, I think "Okay I want to write a for loop that does xyz." How is it hard to know if copilot did or didn't do what you wanted?

serpix 2y ago
This is how I've used it: "I want to write a function that reduces a map of customer data to a list of their phone numbers from their primary addresses only or contact address if there is no primary address" and then you look at the resulting flatmap, filter, reduce blob of AI generated code and figure out if what it does is correct for about a minute.
- alecthomas 2y ago
  This was an illuminating comment because I think I finally understand why people have wildly varying experiences with CoPilot. I think if you regularly use CoPilot to write entire functions or use its prompt mode, you will spend more time verifying its output is accurate than it would save writing the code manually. If instead, you use it iteratively via autocomplete to write small fragments of code, a line or two at a time, its trivial to verify its correctness, and it will save you a good 20-30 seconds at a time, adding up to large savings over time. I exclusively do the latter, so I find it incredibly useful. The few times I've tried using the prompt mode, or comment-driven code generation, it's been very average or awful.
  - mucle6 2y ago
    This makes sense. I just can't imagine how most people hate the autocomplete. If you like a suggestion you hit tab. If not you keep typing.
  - serpix 2y ago
    I use combinations of the two. Sometimes it really is worth it to write a comment on what one is trying to achieve and just let it autocomplete the entire thing. And sometimes just for autocompleting a 'for loop' - a small block of code that one already has in their minds.

noobermin 2y ago

Beware the hype and those pushing the hype, especially when certain entities have wares to sell. While you should keep an open mind within reason, trust your experience and basic reasoning before you throw everything out to buy the snakeoil.