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Many of us would like to not get blown up and to not blow up other random strangers. It’s easy to say an eye for an eye but I think if you’ve seen enough shell

Many of us would like to not get blown up and to not blow up other random strangers. It’s easy to say an eye for an eye but I think if you’ve seen enough shell shock / ptsd the taste for war becomes bitter, although in the pre conception/ fantasy phase the taste is powerfully sweet and titillating. Also, things tend to accelerate as they get towards the end. So Oceania does X to us, we have to do x+y, then they do x+y+z and on and on as overt escalation is normalized. Serious consequences swings both ways. Maybe, just maybe, there could be another way rather than getting shaken up and angry. I don’t want my kids at the bottom of a ruble heap. I don’t won’t yours there either.

billy99k 2y ago
This type of thinking allows evil people to continue to inflict irreversible damage. It also sends out the signal that terrorism works.
ethanwillis 2y ago
I think it's easy to say this when you're not needing healthcare and another nation state has made your local hospital unusable. edit: and parent comment never said consequences would be war.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- salad-tycoon 2y ago
  Correct, I’m making that link. That is my argument. Tit for tat escalates. When you respond with like then you get a stronger like in response. It’s a positive feed back loop. Basic human and group behavior. Two kids starting bumping into each other, if they both respond with similar force then soon they will be fighting all out.
  - barelysapient 2y ago
    And then one starts to cry, and right or wrong doesn’t matter any more and the conflict ends. It’s the same with the countries. Standing up to bullies can work.
    - salad-tycoon 2y ago
      Standing up can work but the stakes are different in war vs fighting back on a school bus. Human loss is an absolute tragedy. Often [always?] times those who command the war have the least to lose. They protect their children but the white/black/brown “trash” kids they are quick to deploy. This fact is shown multiple times in every conflict in living memory. Just search “Russian drone soldier” on Twitter. This is tragedy. Imagine if it was you or your dad or your brother or your son. Then all the fricking Israeli and Palestinian kids. Horror. I’m not a peacenik, there are reasons for war. They should not be taken lightly. It’s like chemotherapy, use it if you have to but if you have ANY other option, consider that.
libertine 2y ago
So your suggestion is to shrug it off, and allow this behavior to continue. Like what happened with flight MH17, where Russia killed 300 people, just send a very tough letter.
nitwit005 2y ago
It's meaningless to say you don't like violence when you can't suggest an alternative.
- salad-tycoon 2y ago
  Alternative: I disagree that violence is an alternative at all, I think our war tools and tech reliance and knowledge industry siloing is too advanced and significant global conflict will ensure ends to these ways of life. I think violence can be necessary but we tend to have a history were it sure is necessary a whole lot and the places we grace tend to erupt in it too. I’ll try yo present a vision for an alternative. I realize I’m an idealist. I am not an optimists. I would love if we could all hold hands, I realize that is impossible. Small part of my world event view point: Russia has or is sending nuclear weapons into spaces, BRICCS is a thing, various US alliances are shifting to other centers of power. Many people the world over feel like the American boot has been on them (and they aren’t wrong, US history does t and couldn’t have thing time to teach even a small amount). Framework I propose as opposed to shoot back harder and faster: we stop seeing every possible thing as world Enders, moral imperatives, urgent action items. A lot of people who have not really experienced life threatening war situations are so quick to thrust not just themselves but their cousins once, twice, and 6 times removed into chaos. I understand your political and moral view points are important, keep fighting the good fight but keep it figurative. We stop low key following Hammurabian Code of Laws (eye for eye). We increase defense, actually harden these systems, and decrease offense and stop dubious us led foreign political interference , increase public transparency, we tamper back foreign influence (aka corporations), we increase dialogue. The fact remains, if we continue to act in the same manner and things continue to escalate, why is it going to change? Things are escalating.

billy99k 2y ago

This type of thinking allows evil people to continue to inflict irreversible damage. It also sends out the signal that terrorism works.

ethanwillis 2y ago

I think it's easy to say this when you're not needing healthcare and another nation state has made your local hospital unusable. edit: and parent comment never said consequences would be war.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
salad-tycoon 2y ago
Correct, I’m making that link. That is my argument. Tit for tat escalates. When you respond with like then you get a stronger like in response. It’s a positive feed back loop. Basic human and group behavior. Two kids starting bumping into each other, if they both respond with similar force then soon they will be fighting all out.
- barelysapient 2y ago
  And then one starts to cry, and right or wrong doesn’t matter any more and the conflict ends. It’s the same with the countries. Standing up to bullies can work.
  - salad-tycoon 2y ago
    Standing up can work but the stakes are different in war vs fighting back on a school bus. Human loss is an absolute tragedy. Often [always?] times those who command the war have the least to lose. They protect their children but the white/black/brown “trash” kids they are quick to deploy. This fact is shown multiple times in every conflict in living memory. Just search “Russian drone soldier” on Twitter. This is tragedy. Imagine if it was you or your dad or your brother or your son. Then all the fricking Israeli and Palestinian kids. Horror. I’m not a peacenik, there are reasons for war. They should not be taken lightly. It’s like chemotherapy, use it if you have to but if you have ANY other option, consider that.

libertine 2y ago

So your suggestion is to shrug it off, and allow this behavior to continue. Like what happened with flight MH17, where Russia killed 300 people, just send a very tough letter.

nitwit005 2y ago

It's meaningless to say you don't like violence when you can't suggest an alternative.

salad-tycoon 2y ago
Alternative: I disagree that violence is an alternative at all, I think our war tools and tech reliance and knowledge industry siloing is too advanced and significant global conflict will ensure ends to these ways of life. I think violence can be necessary but we tend to have a history were it sure is necessary a whole lot and the places we grace tend to erupt in it too. I’ll try yo present a vision for an alternative. I realize I’m an idealist. I am not an optimists. I would love if we could all hold hands, I realize that is impossible. Small part of my world event view point: Russia has or is sending nuclear weapons into spaces, BRICCS is a thing, various US alliances are shifting to other centers of power. Many people the world over feel like the American boot has been on them (and they aren’t wrong, US history does t and couldn’t have thing time to teach even a small amount). Framework I propose as opposed to shoot back harder and faster: we stop seeing every possible thing as world Enders, moral imperatives, urgent action items. A lot of people who have not really experienced life threatening war situations are so quick to thrust not just themselves but their cousins once, twice, and 6 times removed into chaos. I understand your political and moral view points are important, keep fighting the good fight but keep it figurative. We stop low key following Hammurabian Code of Laws (eye for eye). We increase defense, actually harden these systems, and decrease offense and stop dubious us led foreign political interference , increase public transparency, we tamper back foreign influence (aka corporations), we increase dialogue. The fact remains, if we continue to act in the same manner and things continue to escalate, why is it going to change? Things are escalating.