4 ms·

Not to get off on the wrong foot (and I'm sure it's obvious on HN) but starting your own business !== startup. In the broader culture, startup has become a tren

Not to get off on the wrong foot (and I'm sure it's obvious on HN) but starting your own business !== startup. In the broader culture, startup has become a trendy word (along with entrepreneur). Most people using these words don't actually understand what they mean. It's as if they're holding their pet in their arms. They say, "Would you like to pet my dog" and they're actually holding a cat. I'm certainly not knocking SMB biz owners. I'm one. But that doesn't make me a startup. It doesn't make me an entrepreneur. Entrepreneurial? Or entrepreneur-minded? Sure. But I - along with many others - don't meet the definition of entrepreneur.

endisneigh 2y ago
What?
dgacmu 2y ago
I think you do - you organized a business venture and assumed the risk for it. I've founded or co-founded two venture funded startups and two self-funded businesses, and I consider them equally entrepreneurial. The ISP, while we didn't take external funding, was definitely a startup. I don't put the cryptocurrency crap in the startup bin because I deliberately chose not to grow it to have employees beyond the three founders, even though it was the most profitable of all of the ventures. Weird that.
CrazyStat 2y ago
Out of curiosity, how do you define “entrepreneur” so as to exclude people who create small businesses?
- chiefalchemist 2y ago
  Back of the envelope (and of couse there are exceptions and subtleties to all these)... - scale, as in they think about it. Franchising your brand === entrepreneur. Buying a franchise - despite Entrepreneur mag's narrative - does not. - exit, as in they don't lose sight of it - hit by a bus (similar to exit). An entrepreneur's brand continues without them. - innovation and/ uniqueness in product. Opening another cookie cutter lemonade stand don't cut it - risk, their lens is not about risk, it's about opportunity. That is, where other see risk, the true entrepreneur sees opportunity. I might have one or two others but that's the basic filter. <edit> One to add. - upsetting - I don't like the word disruption. It's over used and it's the wrong goal. The goal is to identify a market and find fit. Disruption in and of itself is silly. That said, if you're not pissing some one(s) off then you're likely not an entrepreneur. Again, another lemonade stand isn't grounds enough to be considered an entrepreneur.
  - westurner 2y ago
    Maybe that's more of a "savvy, likeable entrepreneur". Google / Oxford Languages has: https://www.google.com/search?q=entrepreneur https://www.google.com/search?q=entrepreneur : > en·tre·pre·neur: a person who organizes and operates a business or businesses, taking on greater than normal financial risks in order to do so
    - chiefalchemist 2y ago
      I'd categorize that as the simplistic 20th Century definition. It needs to be updated at this point. Financial risk is not enough of a metric.
      - CrazyStat 2y ago
        Why? If a word has a perfectly workable definition that everybody is already familiar with, why do we “need” to hijack it with a new, different definition?
tiledjinn 2y ago
[flagged]
- vundercind 2y ago
  I would agree at least that “entrepreneur” connoted something pretty different to me before I became familiar with its usage in tech startup culture. I’d not have included “solo-preneur” or businesses that just operate things (“I own a lot of vending machines”) or a restaurant, say. It implied employees and a market that leans more industrial, and that produces something (even if it’s software, I suppose). I’d not have classed a small tech agency or a dry cleaning business as “entrepreneurship”—which takes nothing away from them, it’s just that the term meant something more-specific to me. Looking at older dictionaries, this does seem to be more in-line with what the term used to mean, and probably still does in some circles.
  - tiledjinn 2y ago
    the meaning of the word didn't change.
    - vundercind 2y ago
      The very first paragraph of the Wikipedia article on entrepreneurship, plus some dictionaries, suggest that yes, it has, and not only that, but the usage in spaces like this one is still not the dominant one. Unless you’re agreeing that the word still means what I suggest it does (or did), not just starting any kind of business.
      - tiledjinn 2y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrepreneurship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrepreneurship > An entrepreneur (French: [ɑ̃tʁəpʁənœʁ]) is an individual who creates and/or invests in one or more businesses, bearing most of the risks and enjoying most of the rewards. nothing there precludes even microbusinesses. and nothing requires taking VC or having employees. the word hasn't changed.
jeffreyrogers 2y ago
I would argue that most SMB business owners are more entrepreneurial than the average "founder". To me "entrepreneur" connotes risk, and most VC backed entrepreneurs are only risking their time (with good odds of being a well payed employee if they fail). SMB owners are often risking a significant amount of their personal wealth (and potentially their home as well).
- grugagag 2y ago
  You’re forgetting to mention that many startups pay in promises and game those in the end that only founders get paid big and the employees who put in the time get close to nothing.
- chiefalchemist 2y ago
  Re: risk Nah. That trope is a all too common false assumption. Where others see risk, the true entrepreneur sees opportunity. The myth of Entrepreneurs being willing to embrace more risk is a false one. Rather they see things others do not and ultimately mitigate risk. They fact that others use risk as the metric proves my point.
madamelic 2y ago
All founders are entrepreneurs. Not all entrepreneurs are startup founders.
- chiefalchemist 2y ago
  You can certainly be an entrepreneur and not do the traditional startup route (i.e., angels, VCs, etc). You can also be a founder of a company that is effectively a knock-off of some other company / model. Sorry, but regardless of how you go about it, cookie cutter'ing it isn't good enough. That's not an entrepreneur.

endisneigh 2y ago

What?

dgacmu 2y ago

I think you do - you organized a business venture and assumed the risk for it. I've founded or co-founded two venture funded startups and two self-funded businesses, and I consider them equally entrepreneurial. The ISP, while we didn't take external funding, was definitely a startup. I don't put the cryptocurrency crap in the startup bin because I deliberately chose not to grow it to have employees beyond the three founders, even though it was the most profitable of all of the ventures. Weird that.

CrazyStat 2y ago

Out of curiosity, how do you define “entrepreneur” so as to exclude people who create small businesses?

chiefalchemist 2y ago
Back of the envelope (and of couse there are exceptions and subtleties to all these)... - scale, as in they think about it. Franchising your brand === entrepreneur. Buying a franchise - despite Entrepreneur mag's narrative - does not. - exit, as in they don't lose sight of it - hit by a bus (similar to exit). An entrepreneur's brand continues without them. - innovation and/ uniqueness in product. Opening another cookie cutter lemonade stand don't cut it - risk, their lens is not about risk, it's about opportunity. That is, where other see risk, the true entrepreneur sees opportunity. I might have one or two others but that's the basic filter. <edit> One to add. - upsetting - I don't like the word disruption. It's over used and it's the wrong goal. The goal is to identify a market and find fit. Disruption in and of itself is silly. That said, if you're not pissing some one(s) off then you're likely not an entrepreneur. Again, another lemonade stand isn't grounds enough to be considered an entrepreneur.
- westurner 2y ago
  Maybe that's more of a "savvy, likeable entrepreneur". Google / Oxford Languages has: https://www.google.com/search?q=entrepreneur https://www.google.com/search?q=entrepreneur : > en·tre·pre·neur: a person who organizes and operates a business or businesses, taking on greater than normal financial risks in order to do so
  - chiefalchemist 2y ago
    I'd categorize that as the simplistic 20th Century definition. It needs to be updated at this point. Financial risk is not enough of a metric.
    - CrazyStat 2y ago
      Why? If a word has a perfectly workable definition that everybody is already familiar with, why do we “need” to hijack it with a new, different definition?

tiledjinn 2y ago

[flagged]

vundercind 2y ago
I would agree at least that “entrepreneur” connoted something pretty different to me before I became familiar with its usage in tech startup culture. I’d not have included “solo-preneur” or businesses that just operate things (“I own a lot of vending machines”) or a restaurant, say. It implied employees and a market that leans more industrial, and that produces something (even if it’s software, I suppose). I’d not have classed a small tech agency or a dry cleaning business as “entrepreneurship”—which takes nothing away from them, it’s just that the term meant something more-specific to me. Looking at older dictionaries, this does seem to be more in-line with what the term used to mean, and probably still does in some circles.
- tiledjinn 2y ago
  the meaning of the word didn't change.
  - vundercind 2y ago
    The very first paragraph of the Wikipedia article on entrepreneurship, plus some dictionaries, suggest that yes, it has, and not only that, but the usage in spaces like this one is still not the dominant one. Unless you’re agreeing that the word still means what I suggest it does (or did), not just starting any kind of business.
    - tiledjinn 2y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrepreneurship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrepreneurship > An entrepreneur (French: [ɑ̃tʁəpʁənœʁ]) is an individual who creates and/or invests in one or more businesses, bearing most of the risks and enjoying most of the rewards. nothing there precludes even microbusinesses. and nothing requires taking VC or having employees. the word hasn't changed.

jeffreyrogers 2y ago

I would argue that most SMB business owners are more entrepreneurial than the average "founder". To me "entrepreneur" connotes risk, and most VC backed entrepreneurs are only risking their time (with good odds of being a well payed employee if they fail). SMB owners are often risking a significant amount of their personal wealth (and potentially their home as well).

grugagag 2y ago
You’re forgetting to mention that many startups pay in promises and game those in the end that only founders get paid big and the employees who put in the time get close to nothing.
chiefalchemist 2y ago
Re: risk Nah. That trope is a all too common false assumption. Where others see risk, the true entrepreneur sees opportunity. The myth of Entrepreneurs being willing to embrace more risk is a false one. Rather they see things others do not and ultimately mitigate risk. They fact that others use risk as the metric proves my point.

madamelic 2y ago

All founders are entrepreneurs. Not all entrepreneurs are startup founders.

chiefalchemist 2y ago
You can certainly be an entrepreneur and not do the traditional startup route (i.e., angels, VCs, etc). You can also be a founder of a company that is effectively a knock-off of some other company / model. Sorry, but regardless of how you go about it, cookie cutter'ing it isn't good enough. That's not an entrepreneur.