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Or on this same point but from another angle, consider the ways you get into the higher end of the income distribution without a college degree. You either have

Or on this same point but from another angle, consider the ways you get into the higher end of the income distribution without a college degree. You either have family connections that let you take over a business, or you do something that comes with a big premium (walk on roofs, go up on ladders, move furniture, work construction). If you didn't win the birth lottery that allows you to open door #1, you're stuck with the second option. Moving furniture or going up on a ladder aren't terrible when you're fresh out of high school. They are when you're 50, and you're going to be one of those that takes Social Security at 62, possibly after multiple spells of unemployment as you approached retirement.

silverquiet 2y ago
I didn't win the birth lottery on #2 either; I've got some physical disability, though I have still done a bit of that type of work and if you think it comes with a "big premium" then your experience is very different from mine. Roofing is an incredibly simple job to learn for instance, and it pays little better than minimum wage. From my actual experience (admittedly limited to the South Texas market), blue collar jobs still pay like crap. The toll taken on the body actually seems to be pretty individualized; I know some men who seem to have no problem working into their 60's and I think that keeping active within reasonable bounds actually contributed to that.
- bachmeier 2y ago
  My point is not that you can make a good income doing blue collar work (you generally can't) but rather that some people do make a reasonable income doing that type of work, and in those cases there's a good explanation. > Roofing is an incredibly simple job to learn for instance, and it pays little better than minimum wage. I can't speak to your area, but doing roofing on tall houses/buildings with a steep slope here pays much better than working on relatively flat roofs or one-story houses.
  - silverquiet 2y ago
    Yes, my experience is generally residential, but it also tends to be that risk is just one of the costs that blue-collar workers are expected to take; there is little pay premium for it. Skill does tend to get some reward; I think I'd be inclined to go electrician if I had to. I think if one wanted to get paid the most, I'd look at plumbing because it both takes some skill (despite the "3 rules" joke) and is literally shitty. Personally I enjoy a bit of carpentry work now and again, but my skill is nothing compared to my brother, and he was never really able to put together a comfortable living despite his ability. Fortunately, he was able to get an engineering job (not the software kind) fairly recently and was amazed at the idea of getting paid for a day off once in awhile and having health insurance.
    - bombcar 2y ago
      The key in the trades is striking out on your own as rapidly as possible; if you don’t get to that tier you’ll end up with a moderate income.
      - apantel 2y ago
        Yes. Trades == business. If you want to make a lot of money, you have to become a business owner.

silverquiet 2y ago

I didn't win the birth lottery on #2 either; I've got some physical disability, though I have still done a bit of that type of work and if you think it comes with a "big premium" then your experience is very different from mine. Roofing is an incredibly simple job to learn for instance, and it pays little better than minimum wage. From my actual experience (admittedly limited to the South Texas market), blue collar jobs still pay like crap. The toll taken on the body actually seems to be pretty individualized; I know some men who seem to have no problem working into their 60's and I think that keeping active within reasonable bounds actually contributed to that.

bachmeier 2y ago
My point is not that you can make a good income doing blue collar work (you generally can't) but rather that some people do make a reasonable income doing that type of work, and in those cases there's a good explanation. > Roofing is an incredibly simple job to learn for instance, and it pays little better than minimum wage. I can't speak to your area, but doing roofing on tall houses/buildings with a steep slope here pays much better than working on relatively flat roofs or one-story houses.
- silverquiet 2y ago
  Yes, my experience is generally residential, but it also tends to be that risk is just one of the costs that blue-collar workers are expected to take; there is little pay premium for it. Skill does tend to get some reward; I think I'd be inclined to go electrician if I had to. I think if one wanted to get paid the most, I'd look at plumbing because it both takes some skill (despite the "3 rules" joke) and is literally shitty. Personally I enjoy a bit of carpentry work now and again, but my skill is nothing compared to my brother, and he was never really able to put together a comfortable living despite his ability. Fortunately, he was able to get an engineering job (not the software kind) fairly recently and was amazed at the idea of getting paid for a day off once in awhile and having health insurance.
  - bombcar 2y ago
    The key in the trades is striking out on your own as rapidly as possible; if you don’t get to that tier you’ll end up with a moderate income.
    - apantel 2y ago
      Yes. Trades == business. If you want to make a lot of money, you have to become a business owner.