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> your actions online can harm your social credit score There is no such thing as a social credit score in China. It's a myth. The fact that this myth has per

> your actions online can harm your social credit score There is no such thing as a social credit score in China. It's a myth. The fact that this myth has persisted for so many years is puzzling.

imiric 2y ago
I suppose you're going to tell me that the documented cases of people being refused employment or basic services because they've behaved in a way that authorities deem morally "wrong" is also a myth? Western propaganda, surely. But please link me to any proof. I want to be educated. Also, way to ignore the part where people are arrested or disappeared for the same behavior. At least we can agree that much is true.
- DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
  Yes, it's a myth. If you want to know about the real "social credit system," look up Jeremy Daum, a specialist in Chinese law at Yale who has written various articles and given interviews on the subject. Long story short: it's a grab bag of corporate regulations, and does not involve scoring of citizens. There's only one way that private individuals ever interact with the system, and that is if they default on a court decision. Every case you hear about someone not being allowed to take high-speed trains or the like has to do with people who lost a legal case (such as a defamation lawsuit), were ordered to pay a fine, and then refused. Again, no score is ever involved, and citizens rarely interact with this system at all.
  - imiric 2y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40342534 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40342534
talldayo 2y ago
There is literally a social credit score in China, and it is the basis for denying people the ability to leave the country. If you are a state dissident, your rights will not be respected like they are in America, you will not be given sovereignty whatsoever.
- DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
  There literally is no such thing as a social credit score. This is one of the most bizarre yet persistent and widely believed myths out there. Go ask any of your Chinese colleagues what their "social credit score" is in China. They don't have one. The only people in China who have ever heard of "social credit scores" are people who are familiar with Western internet memes. > the basis for denying people the ability to leave the country Exit bans are applied when someone is facing legal proceedings, and they're considered a flight risk. Again, there simply is no citizen scoring system in China. Doesn't exist.
  - imiric 2y ago
    Repeating the same talking points doesn't make them true. Even if there is no nationwide "social credit score", local governments have been experimenting with an incentive and penalty system for decades now. This is well documented inside and outside of China. Even the new nationwide law set in place in 2022[1] mentions some of the same practices carried out by local governments: > There are 14 penalty measures for untrustworthiness, broken into 3 types [...] such as restricting entry in a marketplace or industry, restrictions on holing [sic] positions, restrictions on spending, restrictions on exiting the country, restrictions on promotion to a higher level of schooling, and so forth [...] The law is so vague that I can imagine in practice it's abused for all sorts of things, such as "causing unrest", "spreading falsehoods", or whatever the local or central government deems to go against their bottom line. Even sources that try to label this as a myth[2,3] can't avoid mentioning that these systems do exist as localized "pilots". So whether or not this is done nationwide, whether or not a "score" exists for individual citizens, and whether or not they're aware of it, doesn't make this a myth, or some form of Western propaganda. Your statements that all of this is a myth is patently false. Please stop spreading disinformation. [1]: https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/en/sc-punishment-list/ https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/en/sc-punishment-list/ [2]: https://merics.org/en/comment/chinas-social-credit-score-untangling-myth-reality https://merics.org/en/comment/chinas-social-credit-score-unt... [3]: https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/22/1063605/china-announced-a-new-social-credit-law-what-does-it-mean/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/22/1063605/china-an...

> your actions online can harm your social credit score There is no such thing as a social credit score in China. It's a myth. The fact that this myth has persisted for so many years is puzzling.

imiric 2y ago

I suppose you're going to tell me that the documented cases of people being refused employment or basic services because they've behaved in a way that authorities deem morally "wrong" is also a myth? Western propaganda, surely. But please link me to any proof. I want to be educated. Also, way to ignore the part where people are arrested or disappeared for the same behavior. At least we can agree that much is true.

DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
Yes, it's a myth. If you want to know about the real "social credit system," look up Jeremy Daum, a specialist in Chinese law at Yale who has written various articles and given interviews on the subject. Long story short: it's a grab bag of corporate regulations, and does not involve scoring of citizens. There's only one way that private individuals ever interact with the system, and that is if they default on a court decision. Every case you hear about someone not being allowed to take high-speed trains or the like has to do with people who lost a legal case (such as a defamation lawsuit), were ordered to pay a fine, and then refused. Again, no score is ever involved, and citizens rarely interact with this system at all.
- imiric 2y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40342534 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40342534

talldayo 2y ago

There is literally a social credit score in China, and it is the basis for denying people the ability to leave the country. If you are a state dissident, your rights will not be respected like they are in America, you will not be given sovereignty whatsoever.

DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
There literally is no such thing as a social credit score. This is one of the most bizarre yet persistent and widely believed myths out there. Go ask any of your Chinese colleagues what their "social credit score" is in China. They don't have one. The only people in China who have ever heard of "social credit scores" are people who are familiar with Western internet memes. > the basis for denying people the ability to leave the country Exit bans are applied when someone is facing legal proceedings, and they're considered a flight risk. Again, there simply is no citizen scoring system in China. Doesn't exist.
- imiric 2y ago
  Repeating the same talking points doesn't make them true. Even if there is no nationwide "social credit score", local governments have been experimenting with an incentive and penalty system for decades now. This is well documented inside and outside of China. Even the new nationwide law set in place in 2022[1] mentions some of the same practices carried out by local governments: > There are 14 penalty measures for untrustworthiness, broken into 3 types [...] such as restricting entry in a marketplace or industry, restrictions on holing [sic] positions, restrictions on spending, restrictions on exiting the country, restrictions on promotion to a higher level of schooling, and so forth [...] The law is so vague that I can imagine in practice it's abused for all sorts of things, such as "causing unrest", "spreading falsehoods", or whatever the local or central government deems to go against their bottom line. Even sources that try to label this as a myth[2,3] can't avoid mentioning that these systems do exist as localized "pilots". So whether or not this is done nationwide, whether or not a "score" exists for individual citizens, and whether or not they're aware of it, doesn't make this a myth, or some form of Western propaganda. Your statements that all of this is a myth is patently false. Please stop spreading disinformation. [1]: https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/en/sc-punishment-list/ https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/en/sc-punishment-list/ [2]: https://merics.org/en/comment/chinas-social-credit-score-untangling-myth-reality https://merics.org/en/comment/chinas-social-credit-score-unt... [3]: https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/22/1063605/china-announced-a-new-social-credit-law-what-does-it-mean/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/22/1063605/china-an...