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I guess even if that’s the the hope is in the almost but not quite infinite universe someone has gone and done it anyway. But you’re right, I’m forming the opi

I guess even if that’s the the hope is in the almost but not quite infinite universe someone has gone and done it anyway. But you’re right, I’m forming the opinion that if you’re that advanced you can essentially choose what size you want to be. And if you can do that - and eg live on the surface of a red dwarf for billions of years - why do you need to be expansionist at all? Is it for the view?

jonathankoren 2y ago
Even your idea of living on red dwarf suffers from the same problem that Dyson spheres and really the whole kardishev scale suffers from: They’re bad 1950s sci-fi. Just because you can do the math, doesn’t mean they exist. Not only do you have to have the technology to do any of these these things (which is not a given), but somehow you have to have a civilization dedicated to doing it over the course of thousands of years. No. Just no. It’s just fantasy. Case in point: We know there are no type 3 civilizations anywhere in the observable universe. V
- interstice 2y ago
  The point I was making is more that just because you can use X amount of energy or resources doesnt mean you might want to. Therefore - why expect advanced civilisation to be detectable? Just because you could be type 3 doesnt necessarily mean you have to be. Arguably you might _not_ want to - considering 3 body problem game theory and potentially accelerating the heat death of the universe. Or maybe they all just leave. Or maybe they don't exist. So to say its fantasy is essentially assuming we've proved a negative. That's not a hugely rational position to take.
- gremlinsinc 2y ago
  is there a concept for a civilization type that actually controls the entire universe, under simulation theory? seems you can keep going that parent reality may be a simulation and so on.
  - jonathankoren 2y ago
    Have you ever seen the math for simulation theory? It’s stupid. It pretty much starts with, what has enough entropy to hold the simulation, and then figuring out what could have that many bits of entropy. Which gives you a result like, Sagittarius A*. Which means that the simulation is magically programmed by the material falling to the event horizon of a supermassive blackhole, and the data is red out of the “computer” through hawking radiation at a rate measured in bits per millennia. https://youtu.be/0GLgZvTCbaA https://youtu.be/0GLgZvTCbaA
    - gremlinsinc 2y ago
      Math doesn't apply, not the same math. If all the constants we have are arbitrary numbers set by the simulation. Like the speed of light. Is x, here but maybe its y one sim up - such that y is 10x ... and maybe computing power is 10000x on similar hardware we use... each level up would use similar hardware with the laws of physics possibly working differently giving more compute.... until its impossible to go further, but then maybe the universe you create just becomes smaller and smaller until its the size of a galaxy...etc. That's my take anyways, I'm a programmer not mathematician.

jonathankoren 2y ago

Even your idea of living on red dwarf suffers from the same problem that Dyson spheres and really the whole kardishev scale suffers from: They’re bad 1950s sci-fi. Just because you can do the math, doesn’t mean they exist. Not only do you have to have the technology to do any of these these things (which is not a given), but somehow you have to have a civilization dedicated to doing it over the course of thousands of years. No. Just no. It’s just fantasy. Case in point: We know there are no type 3 civilizations anywhere in the observable universe. V

interstice 2y ago
The point I was making is more that just because you can use X amount of energy or resources doesnt mean you might want to. Therefore - why expect advanced civilisation to be detectable? Just because you could be type 3 doesnt necessarily mean you have to be. Arguably you might _not_ want to - considering 3 body problem game theory and potentially accelerating the heat death of the universe. Or maybe they all just leave. Or maybe they don't exist. So to say its fantasy is essentially assuming we've proved a negative. That's not a hugely rational position to take.
gremlinsinc 2y ago
is there a concept for a civilization type that actually controls the entire universe, under simulation theory? seems you can keep going that parent reality may be a simulation and so on.
- jonathankoren 2y ago
  Have you ever seen the math for simulation theory? It’s stupid. It pretty much starts with, what has enough entropy to hold the simulation, and then figuring out what could have that many bits of entropy. Which gives you a result like, Sagittarius A*. Which means that the simulation is magically programmed by the material falling to the event horizon of a supermassive blackhole, and the data is red out of the “computer” through hawking radiation at a rate measured in bits per millennia. https://youtu.be/0GLgZvTCbaA https://youtu.be/0GLgZvTCbaA
  - gremlinsinc 2y ago
    Math doesn't apply, not the same math. If all the constants we have are arbitrary numbers set by the simulation. Like the speed of light. Is x, here but maybe its y one sim up - such that y is 10x ... and maybe computing power is 10000x on similar hardware we use... each level up would use similar hardware with the laws of physics possibly working differently giving more compute.... until its impossible to go further, but then maybe the universe you create just becomes smaller and smaller until its the size of a galaxy...etc. That's my take anyways, I'm a programmer not mathematician.