4 ms·

> that only showed Israel, with no Palestine nor Gaza nor West Bank marked on it 1) Look at a map of Palestine in 1947. Now look at the Palestinian flag side b

by dakom 2y ago

> that only showed Israel, with no Palestine nor Gaza nor West Bank marked on it 1) Look at a map of Palestine in 1947. Now look at the Palestinian flag side by side with the Jordanian flag. I bet you can figure this one out. 2) When did the nation of Palestine ever have their own land and national identity, prior to 1948? Who was their president/leader? 3) On that note, where was Arafat born? The thing is- this whole farce of "Palestine" is, in fact, nonsense, and the obvious real answer to peace if the Arab refugees from 48 want to call themselves after an old Roman slur to the Jews is for Jordan to designate a chunk. There's like, what, two million so-called Palestinians in Jordan already. > There is also biblical-religious verses that Netanyahu has cited that have the same annihilation rhetoric, as far as I remember I call B.S. the Torah not only doesn't encourage murdering Arabs of any kind, it outright prohibits it. The idealized Torah-based government encourages all the nations of the world to come and live and visit in Israel, provided they follow the 7 Noahide laws (which moderate forms of Islam do). Be honest- did you just completely make up this point? What could you possibly be misremembering? Netanyahu has issues, but misquoting the Torah and using that misquote as a basis for an extreme position of genocide is _very_ out of character for him, doesn't ring true at all. (there _is_ an imperative in the Torah to kill Amalekites. They don't exist anymore and it's completely irrelevant.)

racional 2y ago
the obvious real answer to peace ... is for Jordan to designate a chunk. And then what needs to happen, specifically? Tell us more, please.
- dakom 2y ago
  That's the question we should be asking and the pressure Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan need to be put under by Saudi Arabia, UAE, US, France, Russia, China, etc. I realize that's a stretch- but it shouldn't be. Fantasy scenario: it just happens. Many Palestinian/Arabs continue to live in Israel under Israeli sovereignty because they like the job opportunities or whatever. No persecution, they live and flourish no problem (assuming they genuinely accept Israeli government). Many emigrate to Palestine in eastern Jordan because they feel a connection to the land their great grandparents grew up in, it's worth the tradeoff for them (assuming it's less prosperous than Israel which of course may be inverted, who knows) If 80% of the energy from world hatred of Jews went to actually trying to solve the problem, we'd be in a far better place- less war, less innocents dying, less needing to censor treasonous media, etc. To be completely honest, it boggles my mind that this _isn't_ happening. Instead we have pointless shit like Gays for Palestine blocking entrance to Disneyland. The world has lost its mind on this issue.
  - racional 2y ago
    Many emigrate to Palestine in eastern Jordan because they feel a connection to the land their great grandparents grew up in, it's worth the tradeoff for them (assuming it's less prosperous than Israel which of course may be inverted, who knows) In an optimistic scenario -- approximately what percentage of the current Palestinian/Arab population (in the West Bank + Gaza) need to make this move in order to create conditions for peace, in your view?
    - dakom 2y ago
      0% of those who accept Israeli government wholeheartedly, choose to live as law-abiding citizens, and teach their children to do the same (similar to many Israeli-Arab and Druze populations today). 100% of those who actively support the eradication of Israel and driving every Jew into the sea. In the middle, it may need to lean to less tolerance due to the reality of democracy and demographics, but I'm not sure. My hope would be that most would fit in the 0% category.
      - runarberg 2y ago
        Your 0% category fits into a schoolbook example of colonialism. If your hope is that most people accept being colonized and loosing any prospect of self determination, and potentially their identity, then your hope is that a whole peoples just allows a colonizer to determine their fate in peace. It is not only unrealistic, but also an outdated 19th century view of geopolitics, with a history full of racism, genocide and other horrors.
        dakom 2y ago
        You have it completely inverted. I am talking about the indigenous people returning to their land. I am talking about the original (and much more prolific) religious claims to land being restored over subsequent weak-claimed usurpers. That's literally the opposite of colonialism. (by "weak" I just mean the opposite of prolific.. not sure what the right word would be there, i.e. Judaism has super strong ties to Israel- agricultural laws of orlah and shemittah, recorded purchase and significance of Hebron, daily prayer for over 2000 years to rebuild Jerusalem. No other religion has anywhere near this strong of a connection to the land).

by dakom 2y ago

racional 2y ago

the obvious real answer to peace ... is for Jordan to designate a chunk. And then what needs to happen, specifically? Tell us more, please.

dakom 2y ago
That's the question we should be asking and the pressure Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan need to be put under by Saudi Arabia, UAE, US, France, Russia, China, etc. I realize that's a stretch- but it shouldn't be. Fantasy scenario: it just happens. Many Palestinian/Arabs continue to live in Israel under Israeli sovereignty because they like the job opportunities or whatever. No persecution, they live and flourish no problem (assuming they genuinely accept Israeli government). Many emigrate to Palestine in eastern Jordan because they feel a connection to the land their great grandparents grew up in, it's worth the tradeoff for them (assuming it's less prosperous than Israel which of course may be inverted, who knows) If 80% of the energy from world hatred of Jews went to actually trying to solve the problem, we'd be in a far better place- less war, less innocents dying, less needing to censor treasonous media, etc. To be completely honest, it boggles my mind that this _isn't_ happening. Instead we have pointless shit like Gays for Palestine blocking entrance to Disneyland. The world has lost its mind on this issue.
- racional 2y ago
  Many emigrate to Palestine in eastern Jordan because they feel a connection to the land their great grandparents grew up in, it's worth the tradeoff for them (assuming it's less prosperous than Israel which of course may be inverted, who knows) In an optimistic scenario -- approximately what percentage of the current Palestinian/Arab population (in the West Bank + Gaza) need to make this move in order to create conditions for peace, in your view?
  - dakom 2y ago
    0% of those who accept Israeli government wholeheartedly, choose to live as law-abiding citizens, and teach their children to do the same (similar to many Israeli-Arab and Druze populations today). 100% of those who actively support the eradication of Israel and driving every Jew into the sea. In the middle, it may need to lean to less tolerance due to the reality of democracy and demographics, but I'm not sure. My hope would be that most would fit in the 0% category.
    - runarberg 2y ago
      Your 0% category fits into a schoolbook example of colonialism. If your hope is that most people accept being colonized and loosing any prospect of self determination, and potentially their identity, then your hope is that a whole peoples just allows a colonizer to determine their fate in peace. It is not only unrealistic, but also an outdated 19th century view of geopolitics, with a history full of racism, genocide and other horrors.
      - dakom 2y ago
        You have it completely inverted. I am talking about the indigenous people returning to their land. I am talking about the original (and much more prolific) religious claims to land being restored over subsequent weak-claimed usurpers. That's literally the opposite of colonialism. (by "weak" I just mean the opposite of prolific.. not sure what the right word would be there, i.e. Judaism has super strong ties to Israel- agricultural laws of orlah and shemittah, recorded purchase and significance of Hebron, daily prayer for over 2000 years to rebuild Jerusalem. No other religion has anywhere near this strong of a connection to the land).