3 ms·

Buddhist Reincarnation Led to Hopelessness

3 points by wslh 3y ago

ganzuul 3y ago
This is strange, because through absorption meditation one can identify with anything. So one just identifies with eternal things. God, universe, and everything; solved.
gregjor 3y ago
Buddhism didn't cause that man's feeling of hopelessness. His need to believe in something bigger than himself, and that he has some purpose and special place in the universe, led him to try Buddhism and then Catholicism, like changing clothes. The problem doesn't come from Buddhism, but from the seeker.
richrichie 3y ago
This endless quest for meaning and “hope” are precisely drivers of misery, per Buddhism. It is unfortunate that this gentleman needed so long to spot this fundamental tenet of Buddhism.
krapp 3y ago
Isn't it a fundamental tenet of Buddhism that the cycle of reincarnation is a trap one should seek to escape? The author is a Christian, so I suspect the purpose of this blog post is simply to denigrate Buddhism in the name of Christian apologetics, but that isn't compelling when you don't even put in the effort to understand the basics of what you're trying to denounce. And besides, the Christian constructs of original sin and eternal damnation seem far more bleak than the Buddhist model. At least with Buddhism, your own personal morality and effort have some liminal value (as opposed to Christianity, where only faith in Christ can save you, and regardless of your morality or virtues you burn in hell by default) and there is always the opportunity for growth and renewal in another life (versus "it is destined for man to die once, and face judgement.")
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  Pedantry: don't christians differ in the emphasis various sects put on faith vs works? (true, Dante isn't church-canonical, but he's certainly in the fanon, and no one in his first circle is burning)
  - krapp 3y ago
    Sure, and Buddhists differ widely in their beliefs as well, like more so than Christians. But the New Testament is pretty clear that at the very least you need works and some kind of special sauce, and you only get one shot at it. I was just pointing out that from a certain point of view, the Christian model can look a lot more hopeless than Buddhism.
nataliste 3y ago
From Dr. Paul Williams article: >I began to see that if Buddhism were correct then unless I attained enlightenment (nirvana) or something like it in this life, where the whole cycle of rebirth would finally come to a complete end, I would have no hope. Clearly, I was not going to attain enlightenment in this life. All Buddhists would be inclined to accept that as true concerning just about everyone. Enlightenment is a supreme and extremely rare achievement for spiritual heroes, not the likes of us – certainly not the likes of me. So I (and all my friends and family) have in themselves no hope. So in short, the [Buddhist] ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried.
- amazingman 3y ago
  It seems he missed the point entirely, as does nearly every religiously Buddhist person. Rebirth happens incessantly throughout a single subjective lifetime. It happens every 100-300 milliseconds, so far as I can tell. The Buddha realized this and tried to teach it. Ending the cycle of rebirth mostly just means forestalling the reemergence of the ego/self/subject. It doesn't truly end, though I might grant that some extremely talented meditators can probably spend more time than not (but not all the time) in an egoless state. Take everything you read about the Buddha and his teachings as an attempt to articulate an empirical approach to dealing with the fact(s) of consciousness. If you can't find a way to make a certain lesson or articulation align with an empirical approach to consciousness, then just try a different lesson. The goal isn't nirvana, but freedom. Including freedom from goal-oriented perspectives.

3 points by wslh 3y ago

This is strange, because through absorption meditation one can identify with anything. So one just identifies with eternal things. God, universe, and everything; solved.

gregjor 3y ago

Buddhism didn't cause that man's feeling of hopelessness. His need to believe in something bigger than himself, and that he has some purpose and special place in the universe, led him to try Buddhism and then Catholicism, like changing clothes. The problem doesn't come from Buddhism, but from the seeker.

richrichie 3y ago

This endless quest for meaning and “hope” are precisely drivers of misery, per Buddhism. It is unfortunate that this gentleman needed so long to spot this fundamental tenet of Buddhism.

krapp 3y ago

Isn't it a fundamental tenet of Buddhism that the cycle of reincarnation is a trap one should seek to escape? The author is a Christian, so I suspect the purpose of this blog post is simply to denigrate Buddhism in the name of Christian apologetics, but that isn't compelling when you don't even put in the effort to understand the basics of what you're trying to denounce. And besides, the Christian constructs of original sin and eternal damnation seem far more bleak than the Buddhist model. At least with Buddhism, your own personal morality and effort have some liminal value (as opposed to Christianity, where only faith in Christ can save you, and regardless of your morality or virtues you burn in hell by default) and there is always the opportunity for growth and renewal in another life (versus "it is destined for man to die once, and face judgement.")

082349872349872 3y ago
Pedantry: don't christians differ in the emphasis various sects put on faith vs works? (true, Dante isn't church-canonical, but he's certainly in the fanon, and no one in his first circle is burning)
- krapp 3y ago
  Sure, and Buddhists differ widely in their beliefs as well, like more so than Christians. But the New Testament is pretty clear that at the very least you need works and some kind of special sauce, and you only get one shot at it. I was just pointing out that from a certain point of view, the Christian model can look a lot more hopeless than Buddhism.

nataliste 3y ago

From Dr. Paul Williams article: >I began to see that if Buddhism were correct then unless I attained enlightenment (nirvana) or something like it in this life, where the whole cycle of rebirth would finally come to a complete end, I would have no hope. Clearly, I was not going to attain enlightenment in this life. All Buddhists would be inclined to accept that as true concerning just about everyone. Enlightenment is a supreme and extremely rare achievement for spiritual heroes, not the likes of us – certainly not the likes of me. So I (and all my friends and family) have in themselves no hope. So in short, the [Buddhist] ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried.

amazingman 3y ago
It seems he missed the point entirely, as does nearly every religiously Buddhist person. Rebirth happens incessantly throughout a single subjective lifetime. It happens every 100-300 milliseconds, so far as I can tell. The Buddha realized this and tried to teach it. Ending the cycle of rebirth mostly just means forestalling the reemergence of the ego/self/subject. It doesn't truly end, though I might grant that some extremely talented meditators can probably spend more time than not (but not all the time) in an egoless state. Take everything you read about the Buddha and his teachings as an attempt to articulate an empirical approach to dealing with the fact(s) of consciousness. If you can't find a way to make a certain lesson or articulation align with an empirical approach to consciousness, then just try a different lesson. The goal isn't nirvana, but freedom. Including freedom from goal-oriented perspectives.