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Reading about animals adapting to human environments, always reminds me of this image: https://xkcd.com/1338/ https://xkcd.com/1338/ Which is truly depressing

Reading about animals adapting to human environments, always reminds me of this image: https://xkcd.com/1338/ https://xkcd.com/1338/ Which is truly depressing. Wild animals have no choice: it's either adapt to whatever little space remains for them, or go extinct. Remember @ one time much of western Europe was covered in forests & other rough terrain. And in coastal areas: river deltas, wetlands & tidal zones. Animals like beavers must have been everywhere. Then ~1600, humans cut most of those forests to make farmland, build houses, ships, bridges etc & heat their homes in winter. And hunted many animals to extinction (probably earlier, too). Sadly there's no easy way to restore balance.

loufe 2y ago
I've never seen that one. Made me think about the claim that all ants weigh more than all humans. Looks like it may or may not be the case exactly, but ants are at least a significant missing part of the picture. edit: forgot link : https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2201550119 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2201550119
- portaouflop 2y ago
  Ants aren’t mammals though
  - mikepurvis 2y ago
    Yeah, which definitely helps a lot, that we’re excluding all the wild fish, birds, insects, etc. The wild mammals are going to be human adapted ones like squirrels, mice, rats, etc, plus forest dwellers like beavers, badgers and the like. The real tragedy is probably the large mammals like buffalo, zebra, elephants, giraffes, giant cats, etc, and the hunting of those to near-extinction is deeply unfortunate but also predates industrialization if I understand correctly.
    - KineticLensman 2y ago
      > predates industrialization if I understand correctly. Yes, 'megafauna overkill' [0] [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0167268105000946 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01672...
ajross 2y ago
Actually in the case of beavers they were mostly deliberately hunted. Beavers get along fairly well in close contact with people, they're happy to live in the peripheral wetlands around the places we like to settle. But their natural behavior is to dam those wetlands, which tends to inconveniently flood the areas we're trying to use. So over time we killed them all, deliberately[1]. So, as long as you're willing to modern hydrology management around their areas to prevent damage, beaver restoration programs like this actually work very well. Beaver chew in suburban parks in the US west is a routine thing to see now. [1] Also it turned out they made inconveniently fashionable hats, which didn't help.

loufe 2y ago

I've never seen that one. Made me think about the claim that all ants weigh more than all humans. Looks like it may or may not be the case exactly, but ants are at least a significant missing part of the picture. edit: forgot link : https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2201550119 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2201550119

portaouflop 2y ago
Ants aren’t mammals though
- mikepurvis 2y ago
  Yeah, which definitely helps a lot, that we’re excluding all the wild fish, birds, insects, etc. The wild mammals are going to be human adapted ones like squirrels, mice, rats, etc, plus forest dwellers like beavers, badgers and the like. The real tragedy is probably the large mammals like buffalo, zebra, elephants, giraffes, giant cats, etc, and the hunting of those to near-extinction is deeply unfortunate but also predates industrialization if I understand correctly.
  - KineticLensman 2y ago
    > predates industrialization if I understand correctly. Yes, 'megafauna overkill' [0] [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0167268105000946 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01672...

ajross 2y ago

Actually in the case of beavers they were mostly deliberately hunted. Beavers get along fairly well in close contact with people, they're happy to live in the peripheral wetlands around the places we like to settle. But their natural behavior is to dam those wetlands, which tends to inconveniently flood the areas we're trying to use. So over time we killed them all, deliberately[1]. So, as long as you're willing to modern hydrology management around their areas to prevent damage, beaver restoration programs like this actually work very well. Beaver chew in suburban parks in the US west is a routine thing to see now. [1] Also it turned out they made inconveniently fashionable hats, which didn't help.