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Holding down users, forcing them into an activity not in their interests until they "like it". There is no place for advertising in a civilized future. It's no

Holding down users, forcing them into an activity not in their interests until they "like it". There is no place for advertising in a civilized future. It's not Ok. It's a type of crime I think.

verve_rat 2y ago
The classifieds in the back of newspapers are a type of ad that helped normal people buy/sell their stuff and paid for actual journalism. Some ads are ok. Advertising as a concept is very broad.
novariation 2y ago
Every consumer, and every human being in society faces the "exploration-exploitation" dilemma [0] weekly or daily. They've discovered a set of things they like and dislike, either through family, friends, circumstances, or marketing ploys in the past. Finding new things they like isn't easy. You need external influence. Without these you feel life is boring, repetitive, predictable, lacks texture or excitement. As most honest people will tell (one recent example I've stumbled upon could be independent game developers) - you could have a great product, but sadly most people will not know about it or will be "too busy to try it", and will prefer sticking to their habits or past experiences. How would you go about solving this issue in a reliable way, that's not prone to similar distortions and hijacking as advertising and public relations ? [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploration-exploitation_dilemma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploration-exploitation_dilem...
- underlogic 2y ago
  Here I was thinking marketers were in it for the money but now I see clearly. They're honest people just trying to help solve a problem we all have. Without advertising human beings would sit helpless, unable to discover the world around them.
  - novariation 2y ago
    The comment I'm replying to is very black-and-white: "X should not exist". My answer is simple: there might be a reason that X exists, although it could take different forms and have different rules and methodology. You reply with an equally black-and-white point : "so you're saying they're saints and no one would be able to do anything without their existence". This is lazy and boring, do better.
    - underlogic 2y ago
      Look something has to be done about the constant interruptions these aggressive advertisements cause. They're breaking the internet experience and wasting an astonishing amount of valuable human life hours. They're really stealing that time. If advertising was an option, 99.9% of people would switch it off. I think there was very little truth in your first reply it reads like an excuse for an exploitive business model. I'm assuming you're a marketer or just like playing devil's advocate. In any case, time has come to find technical solutions to hit back at advertising to the degree the industry can never recover.
      - novariation 2y ago
        If I liked playing devil's advocate, I wouldn't be annoyed at your answers. To be honest I started a few years ago interacting with comments I would otherwise ignore because I thought it was harmful to keep yourself in filter bubbles, but I think it's pointless and I'm mostly having negative experiences that I don't need in my life. To address your points: I'm not a marketer, I've got a STEM masters degree and I work as a data analyst, never worked in any marketing related job so far, no interest to do so. You bring a decent point that often advertising isn't something people want, it's rather something they have to accept because they're paying either zero or less than the producer wants/needs for the service they're using, which I think is a fine point. We could go back to a point in time where most things were not financed by ads: either they're financially viable or they don't exist. That's a tradeoff, and companies like Netflix tried to move away from this and found some success. But it seems to me in a lot of situations most people are fine with the old radio station model where you get a few ads every now and then but don't pay anything. If we decide to go this way and make it impossible to fund most of your company or activity through ads, then we'll have a lot less ads, but still won't reach zero ads. Think of the very old ads in the newspaper kind of thing. People need to send information about things they're selling or jobs they need, or events that might interest people. You're bound to have some advertising, you probably just mean to say you would like to have much much less than the current level.
Cheer2171 2y ago
> There is no place for advertising in a civilized future. It's not Ok. It's a type of crime I think. What do you think about craigslist? Should it be banned?
- underlogic 2y ago
  You go to craigslist, it doesn't come up to you and interfere with your activity and waste your time and sell your attention to a third party. We all know what I'm talking about here.
  - fendy3002 2y ago
    Uh, do you understand that you're actually looking for advertisements in craigslist right? Just because you're looking for it doesn't mean that they're not ads. Nobody defend yt or mobile game-likr advertisements. Ads comes in many forms, steam storefront page is another example of good (imo, ymmv) ads.
- ryaneager 2y ago
  While technically Craigslist is an advertisement any layperson can see we’re discussing the concept of advertisers and they ferocity to lie and deceive in their ads, not the very concept of ads themselves. But valiant attempt to derail the conversation.

Holding down users, forcing them into an activity not in their interests until they "like it". There is no place for advertising in a civilized future. It's not Ok. It's a type of crime I think.

verve_rat 2y ago

The classifieds in the back of newspapers are a type of ad that helped normal people buy/sell their stuff and paid for actual journalism. Some ads are ok. Advertising as a concept is very broad.

novariation 2y ago

Every consumer, and every human being in society faces the "exploration-exploitation" dilemma [0] weekly or daily. They've discovered a set of things they like and dislike, either through family, friends, circumstances, or marketing ploys in the past. Finding new things they like isn't easy. You need external influence. Without these you feel life is boring, repetitive, predictable, lacks texture or excitement. As most honest people will tell (one recent example I've stumbled upon could be independent game developers) - you could have a great product, but sadly most people will not know about it or will be "too busy to try it", and will prefer sticking to their habits or past experiences. How would you go about solving this issue in a reliable way, that's not prone to similar distortions and hijacking as advertising and public relations ? [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploration-exploitation_dilemma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploration-exploitation_dilem...

underlogic 2y ago
Here I was thinking marketers were in it for the money but now I see clearly. They're honest people just trying to help solve a problem we all have. Without advertising human beings would sit helpless, unable to discover the world around them.
- novariation 2y ago
  The comment I'm replying to is very black-and-white: "X should not exist". My answer is simple: there might be a reason that X exists, although it could take different forms and have different rules and methodology. You reply with an equally black-and-white point : "so you're saying they're saints and no one would be able to do anything without their existence". This is lazy and boring, do better.
  - underlogic 2y ago
    Look something has to be done about the constant interruptions these aggressive advertisements cause. They're breaking the internet experience and wasting an astonishing amount of valuable human life hours. They're really stealing that time. If advertising was an option, 99.9% of people would switch it off. I think there was very little truth in your first reply it reads like an excuse for an exploitive business model. I'm assuming you're a marketer or just like playing devil's advocate. In any case, time has come to find technical solutions to hit back at advertising to the degree the industry can never recover.
    - novariation 2y ago
      If I liked playing devil's advocate, I wouldn't be annoyed at your answers. To be honest I started a few years ago interacting with comments I would otherwise ignore because I thought it was harmful to keep yourself in filter bubbles, but I think it's pointless and I'm mostly having negative experiences that I don't need in my life. To address your points: I'm not a marketer, I've got a STEM masters degree and I work as a data analyst, never worked in any marketing related job so far, no interest to do so. You bring a decent point that often advertising isn't something people want, it's rather something they have to accept because they're paying either zero or less than the producer wants/needs for the service they're using, which I think is a fine point. We could go back to a point in time where most things were not financed by ads: either they're financially viable or they don't exist. That's a tradeoff, and companies like Netflix tried to move away from this and found some success. But it seems to me in a lot of situations most people are fine with the old radio station model where you get a few ads every now and then but don't pay anything. If we decide to go this way and make it impossible to fund most of your company or activity through ads, then we'll have a lot less ads, but still won't reach zero ads. Think of the very old ads in the newspaper kind of thing. People need to send information about things they're selling or jobs they need, or events that might interest people. You're bound to have some advertising, you probably just mean to say you would like to have much much less than the current level.

Cheer2171 2y ago

> There is no place for advertising in a civilized future. It's not Ok. It's a type of crime I think. What do you think about craigslist? Should it be banned?

underlogic 2y ago
You go to craigslist, it doesn't come up to you and interfere with your activity and waste your time and sell your attention to a third party. We all know what I'm talking about here.
- fendy3002 2y ago
  Uh, do you understand that you're actually looking for advertisements in craigslist right? Just because you're looking for it doesn't mean that they're not ads. Nobody defend yt or mobile game-likr advertisements. Ads comes in many forms, steam storefront page is another example of good (imo, ymmv) ads.
ryaneager 2y ago
While technically Craigslist is an advertisement any layperson can see we’re discussing the concept of advertisers and they ferocity to lie and deceive in their ads, not the very concept of ads themselves. But valiant attempt to derail the conversation.