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Why did Asahi go from arch to fedora? I have such negative associations with fedora (though maybe they’re outdated).

by leoh 2y ago

mort96 2y ago
My understanding is that a lot of the reason is simply that Fedora stepped up. With the Arch-based distro, they were in the unfortunate position of working both on everything involved with developing and maintaining an Arch-based Linux distro and on everything related to getting Linux working on these machines (and Arch Linux ARM proved to be a fairly shaky foundation as well). Now, Fedora is taking care of the Linux distro development stuff, and the Asahi team can focus on drivers and what not. My own experiences with Fedora are mostly positive, both with Fedora Asahi Remix on my Mac laptop and normal Fedora Workstation on my desktop.
- jasoneckert 2y ago
  That is exactly the reason - Arch Linux ARM maintainers just didn't support it properly (https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/109971521711413167 https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/109971521711413167). But Davide Cavalca and Neal Gompa of the Fedora project did. And as an early Asahi user who remembers when it was based on Arch (https://jasoneckert.github.io/myblog/fedora-asahi-remix/ https://jasoneckert.github.io/myblog/fedora-asahi-remix/), I can tell you the move to Fedora has been amazing on all fronts. Bottom line: If you want to run Linux natively on your Apple Silicon Mac, Fedora Asahi Remix has you covered.
tokai 2y ago
Why do you have a negative view of fedora? It's been the best distro for almost a decade.
- ceinewydd 2y ago
  Best for what, and for whom? Just saying “Best Distro” feels like an extraordinary claim. To give two examples of where it might not be best — running Fedora on a server, or running Fedora on a workstation where you need long-term stability and support for running CAD/CAM or CFD software which doesn’t play nicely with major OS changes every few months.
  - samus 2y ago
    You can put off upgrading for a year. Fedora N gets updates until Fedora N+2 is released.
  - temp0826 2y ago
    What is the problem with cad/cam and cfd software? Is it just horribly packaged?
  - dimask 2y ago
    > support for running [...] software which doesn’t play nicely with major OS changes every few months Half-kidding, this is a normal experience for people with macbooks coming from macos, ie updating the os and praying that all software will be working properly after. So it is probably not such a big deal in this case.
  - freedomben 2y ago
    Fedora does have a Server flavor that has all the nice default settings you hope for in a server/headless environment. But on long-running machines (i.e. not containers or temporary boxes) I concur. I use either RHEL or AlmaLinux for those. But given that RHEL and AlmaLinux are based on Fedora, I don't really consider them to be different. Everything you know and love from Fedora (for the most part) will be the same there. For example most of my setup scripts I write for Fedora work without change on AlmaLinux, and package names, config files, etc are very (though not entirely) consistent. Software like CAD/CAM is indeed a lot more painful on Fedora, although IMHO that has basically been solved by distrobox. For softare like that that wants a specific Ubuntu version or whatever, I just install it in a distrobox and export it back to the host. My biggest complaint is that it usually works so well that I sometimes forget it's inside a distrobox :-)
- ploxiln 2y ago
  Fedora First (tm) - they are always trying to push the NEW HOTNESS way before it's ready. PulseAudio, wayland, systemd, all the extra systemd features that shouldn't be part of an init system, Gnome 3, there's always jank new thing they're pushing. 3 to 5 years later this stuff is fine, but Fedora is always First. I use Debian and Arch, used to use Ubuntu and Gentoo many years ago ... I like the model of Arch (and Debian and Gentoo) of being minimal by default, you add the components you want when you want them, for some components you can choose between the stalwart classic and the new upstart depending on what you need. Use boring technology where you can, use the new thing where you have a specific need, stuff will work much more reliably, without all sorts of excuses about how it's some other old component's fault.
Rinzler89 2y ago
>I have such negative associations with fedora May I ask why? My only gripes with Fedora are it's lack of out of the box proprietary codecs, non-FOSS SW and repos, and lacking the creature comforts and user friendly tweaks that ship with the likes of Mint, but that' mostly because it's aimed at corporate workstations rather than home users. But other than that, it's probably one of the most solid Linux choices you can make right now give the abomination Ubuntu has become.
- lttlrck 2y ago
  My daily development machine has been on Fedora without interruption since FC16. At the beginning that was a Sony VAIO, only issues were due to the dual integrated graphics. Then a Dell XPS which was perfect, and for the last 8 years a desktop. It has been brilliant. I have been running it with swaywm for 2+ years now (which brings its own niggles) but I couldn't be happier. I really want to replicate this on my MBP, maybe in a VM or external SSD if that's even possible. Every other desktop environment feels like swimming in molasses. (The reason why I switched to FC16 was because our product was shipping on FC16 (a questionable decision - but it worked out fine) and I wanted to force myself to learn the in and outs, and face any and all problems - and what better way to do that :-)
- freedomben 2y ago
  I've been using Fedora now for 10 years (over a 15 year period due to some distro hopping and a love affair with Arch that lasted a few years and still kindles inside of me and pokes it head up every so often), and I often forget about the lack of proprietary codecs and stuff out of the box. Early on after installation I always add the RPM Fusion repos, which have much of the creature comforts. # Add RPM Fusion repos sudo dnf install -y \ "https://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/rpmfusion-free-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm" \ "https://download1.rpmfusion.org/nonfree/fedora/rpmfusion-nonfree-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm" Then to install the codecs (I have this is a bash script that I run on new installs): # Install additional codecs # From: https://rpmfusion.org/Howto/Multimedia sudo dnf install -y ffmpeg sudo dnf groupupdate multimedia --setopt="install_weak_deps=False" --exclude=PackageKit-gstreamer-plugin sudo dnf groupupdate sound-and-video
rdtsc 2y ago
> I have such negative associations with fedora May I ask why? Just curios. What did Fedora do? I use Ubuntu and Debians but I hear good things about Fedora, updated regularly, lots of modern packages, people I know like it, etc.

Why did Asahi go from arch to fedora? I have such negative associations with fedora (though maybe they’re outdated).

by leoh 2y ago

Why did Asahi go from arch to fedora? I have such negative associations with fedora (though maybe they’re outdated).

My understanding is that a lot of the reason is simply that Fedora stepped up. With the Arch-based distro, they were in the unfortunate position of working both on everything involved with developing and maintaining an Arch-based Linux distro and on everything related to getting Linux working on these machines (and Arch Linux ARM proved to be a fairly shaky foundation as well). Now, Fedora is taking care of the Linux distro development stuff, and the Asahi team can focus on drivers and what not. My own experiences with Fedora are mostly positive, both with Fedora Asahi Remix on my Mac laptop and normal Fedora Workstation on my desktop.

jasoneckert 2y ago
That is exactly the reason - Arch Linux ARM maintainers just didn't support it properly (https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/109971521711413167 https://social.treehouse.systems/@marcan/109971521711413167). But Davide Cavalca and Neal Gompa of the Fedora project did. And as an early Asahi user who remembers when it was based on Arch (https://jasoneckert.github.io/myblog/fedora-asahi-remix/ https://jasoneckert.github.io/myblog/fedora-asahi-remix/), I can tell you the move to Fedora has been amazing on all fronts. Bottom line: If you want to run Linux natively on your Apple Silicon Mac, Fedora Asahi Remix has you covered.

tokai 2y ago

Why do you have a negative view of fedora? It's been the best distro for almost a decade.

ceinewydd 2y ago
Best for what, and for whom? Just saying “Best Distro” feels like an extraordinary claim. To give two examples of where it might not be best — running Fedora on a server, or running Fedora on a workstation where you need long-term stability and support for running CAD/CAM or CFD software which doesn’t play nicely with major OS changes every few months.
- samus 2y ago
  You can put off upgrading for a year. Fedora N gets updates until Fedora N+2 is released.
- temp0826 2y ago
  What is the problem with cad/cam and cfd software? Is it just horribly packaged?
- dimask 2y ago
  > support for running [...] software which doesn’t play nicely with major OS changes every few months Half-kidding, this is a normal experience for people with macbooks coming from macos, ie updating the os and praying that all software will be working properly after. So it is probably not such a big deal in this case.
- freedomben 2y ago
  Fedora does have a Server flavor that has all the nice default settings you hope for in a server/headless environment. But on long-running machines (i.e. not containers or temporary boxes) I concur. I use either RHEL or AlmaLinux for those. But given that RHEL and AlmaLinux are based on Fedora, I don't really consider them to be different. Everything you know and love from Fedora (for the most part) will be the same there. For example most of my setup scripts I write for Fedora work without change on AlmaLinux, and package names, config files, etc are very (though not entirely) consistent. Software like CAD/CAM is indeed a lot more painful on Fedora, although IMHO that has basically been solved by distrobox. For softare like that that wants a specific Ubuntu version or whatever, I just install it in a distrobox and export it back to the host. My biggest complaint is that it usually works so well that I sometimes forget it's inside a distrobox :-)
ploxiln 2y ago
Fedora First (tm) - they are always trying to push the NEW HOTNESS way before it's ready. PulseAudio, wayland, systemd, all the extra systemd features that shouldn't be part of an init system, Gnome 3, there's always jank new thing they're pushing. 3 to 5 years later this stuff is fine, but Fedora is always First. I use Debian and Arch, used to use Ubuntu and Gentoo many years ago ... I like the model of Arch (and Debian and Gentoo) of being minimal by default, you add the components you want when you want them, for some components you can choose between the stalwart classic and the new upstart depending on what you need. Use boring technology where you can, use the new thing where you have a specific need, stuff will work much more reliably, without all sorts of excuses about how it's some other old component's fault.

Rinzler89 2y ago

>I have such negative associations with fedora May I ask why? My only gripes with Fedora are it's lack of out of the box proprietary codecs, non-FOSS SW and repos, and lacking the creature comforts and user friendly tweaks that ship with the likes of Mint, but that' mostly because it's aimed at corporate workstations rather than home users. But other than that, it's probably one of the most solid Linux choices you can make right now give the abomination Ubuntu has become.

lttlrck 2y ago
My daily development machine has been on Fedora without interruption since FC16. At the beginning that was a Sony VAIO, only issues were due to the dual integrated graphics. Then a Dell XPS which was perfect, and for the last 8 years a desktop. It has been brilliant. I have been running it with swaywm for 2+ years now (which brings its own niggles) but I couldn't be happier. I really want to replicate this on my MBP, maybe in a VM or external SSD if that's even possible. Every other desktop environment feels like swimming in molasses. (The reason why I switched to FC16 was because our product was shipping on FC16 (a questionable decision - but it worked out fine) and I wanted to force myself to learn the in and outs, and face any and all problems - and what better way to do that :-)
freedomben 2y ago
I've been using Fedora now for 10 years (over a 15 year period due to some distro hopping and a love affair with Arch that lasted a few years and still kindles inside of me and pokes it head up every so often), and I often forget about the lack of proprietary codecs and stuff out of the box. Early on after installation I always add the RPM Fusion repos, which have much of the creature comforts. # Add RPM Fusion repos sudo dnf install -y \ "https://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/rpmfusion-free-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm" \ "https://download1.rpmfusion.org/nonfree/fedora/rpmfusion-nonfree-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm" Then to install the codecs (I have this is a bash script that I run on new installs): # Install additional codecs # From: https://rpmfusion.org/Howto/Multimedia sudo dnf install -y ffmpeg sudo dnf groupupdate multimedia --setopt="install_weak_deps=False" --exclude=PackageKit-gstreamer-plugin sudo dnf groupupdate sound-and-video

rdtsc 2y ago

> I have such negative associations with fedora May I ask why? Just curios. What did Fedora do? I use Ubuntu and Debians but I hear good things about Fedora, updated regularly, lots of modern packages, people I know like it, etc.