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Also good at response. Ozone situation was fixed and now we actually track the asteroids.
by fsloth 2y ago
Also good at response. Ozone situation was fixed and now we actually track the asteroids.
- bingbingbing777 2y agoOzone is not fixed because I will still get extremely burnt in the sun here in Australia. Asteroids is not fixed because what happens when one super massive one is coming straight for us?
- southernplaces7 2y agoYou do understand that even with a fully normal ozone layer, exposure to the sun can indeed cause burns during certain times of the year and especially in hot, tropical places? Are you expecting magic as a definition of fixed, or something that actually applies to reality? Much of the climate change discourse on this site strays into the absurdly hysterical, but some of it veers even further into deep childish fantasy.
- bongodongobob 2y agoKind of tired of hearing this. Citing one initiative from 50 years ago is the definition of cherry picking, I'm sorry. The trend is that humans are incapable of long term global initiatives. I'm sure some game theory guy could prove it.
- squigz 2y ago> The trend is that humans are incapable of long term global initiatives Doesn't this sort of assertion leave no room for the possibility of learning to do so?
- AlecSchueler 2y agoNo, trends can be broken.
- nozzlegear 2y agoThough the constant doomerism one encounters when they speculate about breaking such trends can discourage anyone from thinking it’s worth pursuing.
- AlecSchueler 2y agoThis sounds like a way to free yourself of personal responsibility. "We could have done so much if the doomsayers hadn't discouraged us!"
- squigz 2y agoYou can't personal responsibility your way out of large-scale societal issues...
- AlecSchueler 2y agoAnd this is a bit like saying your vote doesn't count because it's just one of many. Society is built of people. Changes can only come from people.
- squigz 2y agoI don't think anybody suggested otherwise. But funny you use the plural there...
- AlecSchueler 2y agoFeel free to make a counterargument, but your dismissiveness comes across as very rude.
- nozzlegear 2y agoDon’t get me wrong, I’m very much an optimist when it comes to things like fighting climate change, fixing the ozone layer, etc. and I take plenty of personal responsibility. More than the average person does, I think. The point of my comment was to call attention to the pessimism and doomerism that’s rampant any time you try to discuss saving the planet — case in point, the comments in this very thread. I think those kinds of comments can be discouraging for the layman who wants to help the planet but maybe isn’t well versed enough in the topic to argue with the doomer. More sinisterly, I’ve often wondered how much doomerism is pushed by oil companies and other businesses that stand to benefit from the status quo.
- secondcoming 2y agoWe also solved Peak Oil, Acid Rain and saved the whales.
- borbulon 2y agoThough we have yet to shoot the seals Edit: context https://youtu.be/s95mEchLZEA https://youtu.be/s95mEchLZEA
- mandmandam 2y agoIn what way did we solve peak oil - by continuing to burn more every year? Climate scientists are going out of their minds. Is PFAS rain that much better than acid rain? Rainwater is no longer safe to drink anywhere on Earth. As for the whales, that's nice they got a reprive... But we're still extinctifying species at 100-1,000x the background rate. And the people responsible for all of this are not strung up, nor even imprisoned. They're fucking around on mega-yachts and private planes (environmental atrocities in themselves).
- secondcoming 2y agoPeak Oil was about the world running out of oil.
- mandmandam 2y agoAh, so we 'solved' it by finding so much more oil that life on Earth would be burned to a crisp long before we used it all, then just burning more every year. All while subsidizing oil companies to an absurd degree, even as they make record profits and avoid liability for environmental disasters. So glad we 'solved' that. How great for us, and what an interesting example of how we come together to solve global scale crises that was. Maybe we can solve PFAS rain by coating everything in Teflon so the PFAS don't stick.
- freshpretzels 2y agoThen why is there a global supply chain and global agriculture systems and internet
- MaxBarraclough 2y agoGall's Law speaks to this: > A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that worked. A complex system designed from scratch never works and cannot be patched up to make it work. You have to start over with a working simple system. Gall uses the web as an example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gall_(author)#Gall's_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gall_(author)#Gall's_law
- heavenlyblue 2y agoSounds like Gall's own invented horseshit with not much proof to it. Albeit believable.
- fsloth 2y agoStrong disagree. When there is sufficient political will complex policies can and will be enacted. What is missing in climate action is not some psychological deficiency of our species, it’s lack of strong enough political consensus. ”We can’t do this” is both inaccurate and harmfull. I believe ”We are not currently fixing this” and ”there is a need for stronger political alignment” are the more accurate descriptions of the current malaise.
- groestl 2y ago> it’s lack of strong enough political consensus But this _is_ the psychological deficiency of our species.
- fsloth 2y agoNo, the fact people can have different opinions is a richness. The point of political activity is to align these opinions.
- AlecSchueler 2y agoThe rich culture of climate denial will be our undoing.
- groestl 2y agoIf the outcome of the process of consolidating different opinions (politics) conflicts with the existence of the human species, and the human species has only itself to blame for emergently designing a political process with this faulty outcome, than it's the psychological deficiency of the human species which causes its extinction.
- epgui 2y agoYes, opinions about which foods people prefer. Not “opinions” on the factuality of scientific knowledge (which is a large part of what feeds into discord at the political level— avoidably so).
- 2y ago
- felsokning 2y ago> Ozone situation was fixed... Ozone is still hole'ing[1]. The hole is no longer growing, sure, but that's a far fetch from "fixed". [1] - https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220321-what-happened-to-the-worlds-ozone-hole https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220321-what-happened-to...
- hnlmorg 2y agoWe neither have a plan to fix the existing ozone hole and nor do we have a way for preventing an asteroid collision (assuming we are lucky enough that the theoretical asteroid that hits us is one of the subset of asteroids we can actually track) So no, neither of those problems are even remotely fixed. We’ve just done the bare minimum to check the “we’ve reacted to a crisis” box.
- philipwhiuk 2y agoWe do have a way of redirecting an asteroid. The problem is that we won't learn about it early enough for our current level of technology to do anything about it. We'd need 2 fully-operational Starship launches or 4 SLS launches or 10 Delta IV Heavy launches with 25 years notice to redirect an asteroid like Bennu. Now obviously 2 is better than 4 is better than 10. But the 25 years notice is a big problem. The momentum change you need to deliver the later it gets is so much larger.
- southernplaces7 2y agoAnd quite frankly, Bennu isn't even all that large. At worst, it would cause a regional catastrophe. Imagine humanity being forced to react to an impending impact, say within a few years, from a newly detected 1km+ asteroid, never mind something like the colossal Chicxulub impactor.
- hnlmorg 2y ago> The problem is that we won't learn about it early enough for our current level of technology to do anything about it. And this is exactly my point. We aren’t investing into inventing the technology to do this. Instead we just say “if we can detect a small asteroid early enough then we might be able to divert it” and then count that problem as solved. Even though Bennu is small, we still can’t see the vast majority of objects in the solar system and the advance notice we are talking about is impracticality long. If this was a software engineering Jira ticket, it wouldn’t pass PR. And software developers aren’t even the most diligent of professionals compared engineers, doctors and scientists. But there’s no incentive for governments to sink money into a theoretical risk that impacts their “enemies” equally. And man do I hate how nations refer to other nations as “enemies” — but that’s a whole other argument.
- epgui 2y agoThe current ozone situation is very bad and worsening.