4 ms·

If you intuit that two characters are friends, and then something happens that makes it seem like they're not friends, you'll say "Hey, I thought you two were f

If you intuit that two characters are friends, and then something happens that makes it seem like they're not friends, you'll say "Hey, I thought you two were friends", and the LLM will realize what you're going for, and then come up with something like "Oh we were but now we're fighting". The LLM's role will very much a "yes, and" improv role that will let you guide your own personal story. Or have it push back on you if you want. "What? You thought we were friends? No, I was just doing my duties". What I want to talk about with the dwarves is everything, and LLMs will deliver in spades. I want to ask the lowly NPC what life is like working hard in the mines. Then I want to decide to recruit him on my quest because I like his backstory and personality. Then I'll watch as he levels up with me, in a way that could never be scripted by the game creators. That's just one small way that LLMs will provide a far superior gameplay experience.

jncfhnb 2y ago
> If you intuit that two characters are friends, and then something happens that makes it seem like they're not friends, you'll say "Hey, I thought you two were friends", and the LLM will realize what you're going for, and then come up with something like "Oh we were but now we're fighting". That’s the opposite of what I’m saying. Asking the LLM to justify something is possible but, imo, very boring. What I’m complaining about is asking about their friend and they don’t believe they have a friend. They just fail to capture the apparent narrative that you’ve enjoyed because it’s not really close to whatever game logic they’re scripted to utilize
- gaganyaan 2y ago
  There's no game logic they're scripted to utilize that limits what you're looking for. I'm not sure why you think they'd say they have no friends. You'd say "Tell me about your friend", and the NPC would respond with something like "I have many friends, which one do you mean?". Then you could say "The one I saw you walking into town with yesterday", and the NPC might say, "Oh Rolf, him and I go way back!". Maybe he says that because the LLM has instructions that him and Rolf are friends explicitly, put there by the game devs. Maybe it's not there explicitly, but the LLM sees what you mean and writes the backstory dynamically. Maybe a little bit of both. LLMs are great at picking up narratives like that. It's kind of their whole thing.
  - jncfhnb 2y ago
    A bot that always affirms your assertions is boring as hell to talk to. If the dwarf bot does not know that the character he represents spent the last 24 hours in combat alongside another specific dwarf without you communicating this in text then it might as well not be attached to any character. Liked what would the point be??? That’s just an out of game bot. Your example conversation of leading the bot to say specific things is… awful in my opinion. Who would want to talk to an NPC like this?
    - gaganyaan 2y ago
      So don't use an LLM that always affirms your assertions. Easy peasy. I don't understand your beef. My awkward dialogue was just to demonstrate that the LLM can pick up on all of these things you claim it can't. The LLM wouldn't "believe it didn't have a friend", why would you think that? It's also fine to just enjoy on-rails games with a prewritten story, those will still exist. You might even enjoy the epic stories that people create in these new sandboxes and share with the world.
      - jncfhnb 2y ago
        Because your mental model of how this would work is handwaving the impossibly difficult task of converging the LLM state with the narrative and game state. Your crappy awkward dialogue is probably a very realistic example of a stupid bot that doesn’t even know what actor it represents in game. You’re asking why if would think that? You tell me how it would come to the conclusion correctly by using the game logic. And don’t give an answer that requires a hard coded dev interface between specific game elements and the LLM because that is on its own a more complex task than the LLM itself. It’s incredibly difficult. Shitty home assistants that can’t actually do anything being the prime example. The language processing is not the hard part. It’s the mapping of language to data and capabilities that’s extremely hard. Synthesizing an agent that can form an identity based on its experiences and leverage game mechanics to pursue goals and convey all of this logic in flexible natural language is basically asking for a general intelligence. It’s an incredibly different thing from the shitty dialogue example you wrote

jncfhnb 2y ago

> If you intuit that two characters are friends, and then something happens that makes it seem like they're not friends, you'll say "Hey, I thought you two were friends", and the LLM will realize what you're going for, and then come up with something like "Oh we were but now we're fighting". That’s the opposite of what I’m saying. Asking the LLM to justify something is possible but, imo, very boring. What I’m complaining about is asking about their friend and they don’t believe they have a friend. They just fail to capture the apparent narrative that you’ve enjoyed because it’s not really close to whatever game logic they’re scripted to utilize

gaganyaan 2y ago
There's no game logic they're scripted to utilize that limits what you're looking for. I'm not sure why you think they'd say they have no friends. You'd say "Tell me about your friend", and the NPC would respond with something like "I have many friends, which one do you mean?". Then you could say "The one I saw you walking into town with yesterday", and the NPC might say, "Oh Rolf, him and I go way back!". Maybe he says that because the LLM has instructions that him and Rolf are friends explicitly, put there by the game devs. Maybe it's not there explicitly, but the LLM sees what you mean and writes the backstory dynamically. Maybe a little bit of both. LLMs are great at picking up narratives like that. It's kind of their whole thing.
- jncfhnb 2y ago
  A bot that always affirms your assertions is boring as hell to talk to. If the dwarf bot does not know that the character he represents spent the last 24 hours in combat alongside another specific dwarf without you communicating this in text then it might as well not be attached to any character. Liked what would the point be??? That’s just an out of game bot. Your example conversation of leading the bot to say specific things is… awful in my opinion. Who would want to talk to an NPC like this?
  - gaganyaan 2y ago
    So don't use an LLM that always affirms your assertions. Easy peasy. I don't understand your beef. My awkward dialogue was just to demonstrate that the LLM can pick up on all of these things you claim it can't. The LLM wouldn't "believe it didn't have a friend", why would you think that? It's also fine to just enjoy on-rails games with a prewritten story, those will still exist. You might even enjoy the epic stories that people create in these new sandboxes and share with the world.
    - jncfhnb 2y ago
      Because your mental model of how this would work is handwaving the impossibly difficult task of converging the LLM state with the narrative and game state. Your crappy awkward dialogue is probably a very realistic example of a stupid bot that doesn’t even know what actor it represents in game. You’re asking why if would think that? You tell me how it would come to the conclusion correctly by using the game logic. And don’t give an answer that requires a hard coded dev interface between specific game elements and the LLM because that is on its own a more complex task than the LLM itself. It’s incredibly difficult. Shitty home assistants that can’t actually do anything being the prime example. The language processing is not the hard part. It’s the mapping of language to data and capabilities that’s extremely hard. Synthesizing an agent that can form an identity based on its experiences and leverage game mechanics to pursue goals and convey all of this logic in flexible natural language is basically asking for a general intelligence. It’s an incredibly different thing from the shitty dialogue example you wrote