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In my eyes, Dwarf fortresses interesting stories emerge from the events that happen within the game. It doesn't require any blank filling, although it doesn't s

by Hugsun 2y ago

In my eyes, Dwarf fortresses interesting stories emerge from the events that happen within the game. It doesn't require any blank filling, although it doesn't suffer if you do it either. > ai keeps breaking your head canon. We must be fundamentally different types of people. I can't imagine even having this thought. If I'm playing a game that has characters, I'm not going to make up some facts about them and be upset when I talk to them and those made up facts turn out to be wrong. This is the only interpretation of your words that I can think of. Feel free to confirm it or deny.

jncfhnb 2y ago
You’ve never intuited that two characters are friends? Or perhaps that guy holding a ton of cheese is the cheese guy? Or that an event was emotionally meaningful to them? I don’t know what you’re hoping to talk to these dwarves about. I’m not saying I would be “upset” if the head canon wasn’t actualized. I’m saying I would be underwhelmed because the generic LLM content is nearly guaranteed by this other thing that I stated as a premise I found interesting or amusing.
- gaganyaan 2y ago
  If you intuit that two characters are friends, and then something happens that makes it seem like they're not friends, you'll say "Hey, I thought you two were friends", and the LLM will realize what you're going for, and then come up with something like "Oh we were but now we're fighting". The LLM's role will very much a "yes, and" improv role that will let you guide your own personal story. Or have it push back on you if you want. "What? You thought we were friends? No, I was just doing my duties". What I want to talk about with the dwarves is everything, and LLMs will deliver in spades. I want to ask the lowly NPC what life is like working hard in the mines. Then I want to decide to recruit him on my quest because I like his backstory and personality. Then I'll watch as he levels up with me, in a way that could never be scripted by the game creators. That's just one small way that LLMs will provide a far superior gameplay experience.
  - jncfhnb 2y ago
    > If you intuit that two characters are friends, and then something happens that makes it seem like they're not friends, you'll say "Hey, I thought you two were friends", and the LLM will realize what you're going for, and then come up with something like "Oh we were but now we're fighting". That’s the opposite of what I’m saying. Asking the LLM to justify something is possible but, imo, very boring. What I’m complaining about is asking about their friend and they don’t believe they have a friend. They just fail to capture the apparent narrative that you’ve enjoyed because it’s not really close to whatever game logic they’re scripted to utilize
    - gaganyaan 2y ago
      There's no game logic they're scripted to utilize that limits what you're looking for. I'm not sure why you think they'd say they have no friends. You'd say "Tell me about your friend", and the NPC would respond with something like "I have many friends, which one do you mean?". Then you could say "The one I saw you walking into town with yesterday", and the NPC might say, "Oh Rolf, him and I go way back!". Maybe he says that because the LLM has instructions that him and Rolf are friends explicitly, put there by the game devs. Maybe it's not there explicitly, but the LLM sees what you mean and writes the backstory dynamically. Maybe a little bit of both. LLMs are great at picking up narratives like that. It's kind of their whole thing.
      - jncfhnb 2y ago
        A bot that always affirms your assertions is boring as hell to talk to. If the dwarf bot does not know that the character he represents spent the last 24 hours in combat alongside another specific dwarf without you communicating this in text then it might as well not be attached to any character. Liked what would the point be??? That’s just an out of game bot. Your example conversation of leading the bot to say specific things is… awful in my opinion. Who would want to talk to an NPC like this?
        gaganyaan 2y ago

by Hugsun 2y ago

jncfhnb 2y ago

You’ve never intuited that two characters are friends? Or perhaps that guy holding a ton of cheese is the cheese guy? Or that an event was emotionally meaningful to them? I don’t know what you’re hoping to talk to these dwarves about. I’m not saying I would be “upset” if the head canon wasn’t actualized. I’m saying I would be underwhelmed because the generic LLM content is nearly guaranteed by this other thing that I stated as a premise I found interesting or amusing.

gaganyaan 2y ago
If you intuit that two characters are friends, and then something happens that makes it seem like they're not friends, you'll say "Hey, I thought you two were friends", and the LLM will realize what you're going for, and then come up with something like "Oh we were but now we're fighting". The LLM's role will very much a "yes, and" improv role that will let you guide your own personal story. Or have it push back on you if you want. "What? You thought we were friends? No, I was just doing my duties". What I want to talk about with the dwarves is everything, and LLMs will deliver in spades. I want to ask the lowly NPC what life is like working hard in the mines. Then I want to decide to recruit him on my quest because I like his backstory and personality. Then I'll watch as he levels up with me, in a way that could never be scripted by the game creators. That's just one small way that LLMs will provide a far superior gameplay experience.
- jncfhnb 2y ago
  > If you intuit that two characters are friends, and then something happens that makes it seem like they're not friends, you'll say "Hey, I thought you two were friends", and the LLM will realize what you're going for, and then come up with something like "Oh we were but now we're fighting". That’s the opposite of what I’m saying. Asking the LLM to justify something is possible but, imo, very boring. What I’m complaining about is asking about their friend and they don’t believe they have a friend. They just fail to capture the apparent narrative that you’ve enjoyed because it’s not really close to whatever game logic they’re scripted to utilize
  - gaganyaan 2y ago
    There's no game logic they're scripted to utilize that limits what you're looking for. I'm not sure why you think they'd say they have no friends. You'd say "Tell me about your friend", and the NPC would respond with something like "I have many friends, which one do you mean?". Then you could say "The one I saw you walking into town with yesterday", and the NPC might say, "Oh Rolf, him and I go way back!". Maybe he says that because the LLM has instructions that him and Rolf are friends explicitly, put there by the game devs. Maybe it's not there explicitly, but the LLM sees what you mean and writes the backstory dynamically. Maybe a little bit of both. LLMs are great at picking up narratives like that. It's kind of their whole thing.
    - jncfhnb 2y ago
      A bot that always affirms your assertions is boring as hell to talk to. If the dwarf bot does not know that the character he represents spent the last 24 hours in combat alongside another specific dwarf without you communicating this in text then it might as well not be attached to any character. Liked what would the point be??? That’s just an out of game bot. Your example conversation of leading the bot to say specific things is… awful in my opinion. Who would want to talk to an NPC like this?
      - gaganyaan 2y ago