4 ms·

Climate protesters storm Tesla gigafactory in Europe

17 points by anigbrowl 3y ago

pinewurst 3y ago
https://archive.ph/b8Kyi https://archive.ph/b8Kyi
taylodl 3y ago
Had to lookup up why climate protestors would be protesting the Tesla gigafactory. It's about protecting drinking water. https://www.thelocal.de/20240229/why-are-activists-building-treehouses-to-block-teslas-expansion-plans-in-germany https://www.thelocal.de/20240229/why-are-activists-building-...
- artninja1988 3y ago
  Seems fair enough. Why was the factory allowed to be built there if it threatens the drinking water?
  - blablabla123 3y ago
    They really stretched regulations and started building - with the possibility for approval being denied thus the whole thing having to be teared down. Basically creating facts, I think that has created immense pressure on local politics/regulators. Also considering the region has lots of structural problems. It's quite incomprehensible to me why it wouldn't have been possible to build it a few kilometers further where there's no water protection area. Not to mention they had a number of water contamination incidents since then
  - shafyy 3y ago
    Local politicians who wanted to promote themselves and probably also got lobbied hardcore.
    - llsf 3y ago
      Lobbied by who ? Unlikely Tesla itself as the company would have likely move the factory few kilometers away if that could guarantee future expansions.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    I'm not a Musk fanboy, but one of Germany's (edit: Europe's) largest oil refineries (a very dirty industry) is barely 60 miles away [0], and a couple large coal plants in neighboring Poland barely 100 miles away. It's just NIMBYism and bad faith. If you can storm an EV plant, why not a refinery. [0] - https://www.pck.de/en/ https://www.pck.de/en/
    - llsf 3y ago
      Feels to me that it is a cry for attention. It is like pouring red paint on the Mona Lisa. It seems a bit disproportionate, but it clearly provides some publicity for those activists with little investment. The same against another random Volkswagen factory in Germany would have not the same impact and worldwide coverage. It is an efficient way to make a local town issue, becoming a worldwide cause.
      - alephnerd 3y ago
        Storming a VW plant or one of Europe's largest refineries absolutely would have worldwide coverage, but also National Security level prosecution. It looks like Tesla is facing the brunt because it's not a German company. I wouldn't be surprised if it's also being astroturfed, as it is being spearheaded by a militant/direct action group [0] Right and Left-Wing extremists are two sides of the same coin, and German utilities are viewing this as having potential ramifications on German stability [1][2] [0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/volcano-group-claiming-arson-near-teslas-german-plant-2024-03-05/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/volcan... [1] - https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-case-shows-grids-need-attention-says-germanys-westenergie-2024-03-12/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-... [2] - https://www.ft.com/content/c88509f9-c9bd-46f4-8a5c-9b2bdd3c3dd3 https://www.ft.com/content/c88509f9-c9bd-46f4-8a5c-9b2bdd3c3...
        soramimo 3y ago
        German here. My interpretation of the situation is that Berlin tends to be pretty far left (compared with other parts of the country) and has an sizeable community of activists for various causes. Now, ever since Musk started his journey to the far right fringe, Tesla has increasingly lost sympathy / become a target of these left wing groups.
- raverbashing 3y ago
  I don't believe anything from any of those groups "Climate activists" is the reason why we have so little nuclear power plants
  - Laaas 3y ago
    Technically they are the reason why we don’t have small nuclear reactors.
    - loremium 3y ago
      No Chernobyl is the reason why we don't have nuclear reactors. either Tokio tsunami disaster or the 600 nukes after Hiroshima should prove that mankind can't be trusted with this technology imho. there has to be a better way.
  - viraptor 3y ago
    "climate activists" is not a uniform group. They've got a common goal and many conflicting opinions on the way to get there.
    - osigurdson 3y ago
      I think what they mean is "climate activist" is often code for people with de-growth and anti-human leanings.
    - firebat45 3y ago
      I wouldn't even say a common goal. There's plenty of opinions on what the ideal Earth's climate would be like. Some people strive for what they view as "natural", vs other people who aim to reduce natural disasters, and yet even more who just think we should be reducing our impact in general.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    That's what reactionaries have used in their continuing war to deligitimize everyone and everything left of center. But nobody has demonstrated a reliably cost-effective way to run nuclear power plants, and renewables are the future.
- undersuit 3y ago
  >Had to lookup up why climate protestors would be protesting the Tesla gigafactory. We're not going to stop climate change by moving everyone from a personal use internal combustion vehicle to a personal use electric vehicle. The protestors primary focus is the local water, but their camp carries many slogans like “Clean cars are a dirty lie”.
  - firebat45 3y ago
    You're right to an extent, but personal use electric vehicles are still a step in the right direction. Even if all the power generated for them comes from coal, which is another argument people make against them. I would wager that EV buyers are more willing to look at smaller electric vehicles like ebikes and scooters as compared to the average person. If all our vehicles were electric, it would be much simpler to transition to greener methods of electricity production. ICE vehicles don't have this kind of flexibility.
oldpersonintx 3y ago
[dead]
blackeyeblitzar 3y ago
Trying to invade private property is not protesting, but illegal rioting and trespassing. These articles use different words based on their biases instead of facts, seemingly.
- iaaan 3y ago
  That seems like a bizarre distinction to make. Any action can be done in protest of something.
  - walkabilitee 3y ago
    Peaceful protesting is generally legally protected in developed Western countries. Rioting, burglary, and assault are not, and police are legally and morally justified in using force to arrest the perpetrators.
    - nickthegreek 3y ago
      Still a protest, just not necessarily a peaceful one.
      - hui-zheng 3y ago
        Any action can be done in protest of something, right? If I protest you for some reason that I could get some people to sign up for, could I break into your house and take your stuff?
        nickthegreek 3y ago
        You could do anything you want in protest. No where did I state that it absolves you of legal consequences. You protest in the form that you want, and if it’s illegal, the state will get involved.
      - blackeyeblitzar 3y ago
        But why does this get labeled as a protest and not say January 6th?
killjoywashere 3y ago
Who incited and funded this? Where's that story?
- Sakos 3y ago
  I've had the thought that this is possibly being funded by the car and/or fossil fuel industry. Otherwise it makes zero sense to me why "climate protestors" are so up in arms about this factory over any of the massive factories we have in Germany churning out gas guzzling, planet destroying ICE cars. Or the coal mining or coal power plants. It's more of a conspiracy theory of mine though rather than anything based on anything substantial. I just don't see who else benefits from this.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  German utilities are increasingly viewing this as a potential national security threat [0] and I wouldn't be surprised if there's some indirect support from Russia, especially given the warnings coming from European intelligence agencies recently about sabotage attempts by Russian intelligence services [1] [0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-case-shows-grids-need-attention-says-germanys-westenergie-2024-03-12/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-... [1] - https://www.ft.com/content/c88509f9-c9bd-46f4-8a5c-9b2bdd3c3dd3 https://www.ft.com/content/c88509f9-c9bd-46f4-8a5c-9b2bdd3c3...
jbm 3y ago
Tesla is run like shit but I don't trust "climate protestors" who storm an ev battery plant before oil / coal manufacturing. It's like a vegan fighting with a vegetarian while someone next door is hunting elephants for pleasure.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
rurp 3y ago
The title here matches the article headline but is pretty misleading since all sides agree that no protesters actually set foot in the factory.
wolverine876 3y ago
> “Why are they not jailed for breaking and entering?” Tesla CEO Elon Musk said on X. On non-engineering issues, at least, Musk isn't an original thinker. He just follows the instructions of the people constructing reactionary campaigns. Deligtimizing protest (just like deligitimizing the free press, academia, and other institutions of democracy) is the latest campaign, and Musk picks up on it and of course on the rhetorical tactics (as if he's unaware that people haven't been protesting all his life and for centuries before). What original idea has he had on non-engineering issues? Also difficult is his sudden law-and-order belief, while he violates laws and other rules openly.
librasteve 3y ago
we would welcome a Tesla factory in the UK (oh darn, forgot Brexit)

17 points by anigbrowl 3y ago

https://archive.ph/b8Kyi https://archive.ph/b8Kyi

Had to lookup up why climate protestors would be protesting the Tesla gigafactory. It's about protecting drinking water. https://www.thelocal.de/20240229/why-are-activists-building-treehouses-to-block-teslas-expansion-plans-in-germany https://www.thelocal.de/20240229/why-are-activists-building-...

artninja1988 3y ago
Seems fair enough. Why was the factory allowed to be built there if it threatens the drinking water?
- blablabla123 3y ago
  They really stretched regulations and started building - with the possibility for approval being denied thus the whole thing having to be teared down. Basically creating facts, I think that has created immense pressure on local politics/regulators. Also considering the region has lots of structural problems. It's quite incomprehensible to me why it wouldn't have been possible to build it a few kilometers further where there's no water protection area. Not to mention they had a number of water contamination incidents since then
- shafyy 3y ago
  Local politicians who wanted to promote themselves and probably also got lobbied hardcore.
  - llsf 3y ago
    Lobbied by who ? Unlikely Tesla itself as the company would have likely move the factory few kilometers away if that could guarantee future expansions.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  I'm not a Musk fanboy, but one of Germany's (edit: Europe's) largest oil refineries (a very dirty industry) is barely 60 miles away [0], and a couple large coal plants in neighboring Poland barely 100 miles away. It's just NIMBYism and bad faith. If you can storm an EV plant, why not a refinery. [0] - https://www.pck.de/en/ https://www.pck.de/en/
  - llsf 3y ago
    Feels to me that it is a cry for attention. It is like pouring red paint on the Mona Lisa. It seems a bit disproportionate, but it clearly provides some publicity for those activists with little investment. The same against another random Volkswagen factory in Germany would have not the same impact and worldwide coverage. It is an efficient way to make a local town issue, becoming a worldwide cause.
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      Storming a VW plant or one of Europe's largest refineries absolutely would have worldwide coverage, but also National Security level prosecution. It looks like Tesla is facing the brunt because it's not a German company. I wouldn't be surprised if it's also being astroturfed, as it is being spearheaded by a militant/direct action group [0] Right and Left-Wing extremists are two sides of the same coin, and German utilities are viewing this as having potential ramifications on German stability [1][2] [0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/volcano-group-claiming-arson-near-teslas-german-plant-2024-03-05/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/volcan... [1] - https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-case-shows-grids-need-attention-says-germanys-westenergie-2024-03-12/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-... [2] - https://www.ft.com/content/c88509f9-c9bd-46f4-8a5c-9b2bdd3c3dd3 https://www.ft.com/content/c88509f9-c9bd-46f4-8a5c-9b2bdd3c3...
      - soramimo 3y ago
        German here. My interpretation of the situation is that Berlin tends to be pretty far left (compared with other parts of the country) and has an sizeable community of activists for various causes. Now, ever since Musk started his journey to the far right fringe, Tesla has increasingly lost sympathy / become a target of these left wing groups.
raverbashing 3y ago
I don't believe anything from any of those groups "Climate activists" is the reason why we have so little nuclear power plants
- Laaas 3y ago
  Technically they are the reason why we don’t have small nuclear reactors.
  - loremium 3y ago
    No Chernobyl is the reason why we don't have nuclear reactors. either Tokio tsunami disaster or the 600 nukes after Hiroshima should prove that mankind can't be trusted with this technology imho. there has to be a better way.
- viraptor 3y ago
  "climate activists" is not a uniform group. They've got a common goal and many conflicting opinions on the way to get there.
  - osigurdson 3y ago
    I think what they mean is "climate activist" is often code for people with de-growth and anti-human leanings.
  - firebat45 3y ago
    I wouldn't even say a common goal. There's plenty of opinions on what the ideal Earth's climate would be like. Some people strive for what they view as "natural", vs other people who aim to reduce natural disasters, and yet even more who just think we should be reducing our impact in general.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  That's what reactionaries have used in their continuing war to deligitimize everyone and everything left of center. But nobody has demonstrated a reliably cost-effective way to run nuclear power plants, and renewables are the future.
undersuit 3y ago
>Had to lookup up why climate protestors would be protesting the Tesla gigafactory. We're not going to stop climate change by moving everyone from a personal use internal combustion vehicle to a personal use electric vehicle. The protestors primary focus is the local water, but their camp carries many slogans like “Clean cars are a dirty lie”.
- firebat45 3y ago
  You're right to an extent, but personal use electric vehicles are still a step in the right direction. Even if all the power generated for them comes from coal, which is another argument people make against them. I would wager that EV buyers are more willing to look at smaller electric vehicles like ebikes and scooters as compared to the average person. If all our vehicles were electric, it would be much simpler to transition to greener methods of electricity production. ICE vehicles don't have this kind of flexibility.

oldpersonintx 3y ago

[dead]

blackeyeblitzar 3y ago

Trying to invade private property is not protesting, but illegal rioting and trespassing. These articles use different words based on their biases instead of facts, seemingly.

iaaan 3y ago
That seems like a bizarre distinction to make. Any action can be done in protest of something.
- walkabilitee 3y ago
  Peaceful protesting is generally legally protected in developed Western countries. Rioting, burglary, and assault are not, and police are legally and morally justified in using force to arrest the perpetrators.
  - nickthegreek 3y ago
    Still a protest, just not necessarily a peaceful one.
    - hui-zheng 3y ago
      Any action can be done in protest of something, right? If I protest you for some reason that I could get some people to sign up for, could I break into your house and take your stuff?
      - nickthegreek 3y ago
        You could do anything you want in protest. No where did I state that it absolves you of legal consequences. You protest in the form that you want, and if it’s illegal, the state will get involved.
    - blackeyeblitzar 3y ago
      But why does this get labeled as a protest and not say January 6th?

killjoywashere 3y ago

Who incited and funded this? Where's that story?

Sakos 3y ago
I've had the thought that this is possibly being funded by the car and/or fossil fuel industry. Otherwise it makes zero sense to me why "climate protestors" are so up in arms about this factory over any of the massive factories we have in Germany churning out gas guzzling, planet destroying ICE cars. Or the coal mining or coal power plants. It's more of a conspiracy theory of mine though rather than anything based on anything substantial. I just don't see who else benefits from this.
alephnerd 3y ago
German utilities are increasingly viewing this as a potential national security threat [0] and I wouldn't be surprised if there's some indirect support from Russia, especially given the warnings coming from European intelligence agencies recently about sabotage attempts by Russian intelligence services [1] [0] - https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-case-shows-grids-need-attention-says-germanys-westenergie-2024-03-12/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-... [1] - https://www.ft.com/content/c88509f9-c9bd-46f4-8a5c-9b2bdd3c3dd3 https://www.ft.com/content/c88509f9-c9bd-46f4-8a5c-9b2bdd3c3...

jbm 3y ago

Tesla is run like shit but I don't trust "climate protestors" who storm an ev battery plant before oil / coal manufacturing. It's like a vegan fighting with a vegetarian while someone next door is hunting elephants for pleasure.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

rurp 3y ago

The title here matches the article headline but is pretty misleading since all sides agree that no protesters actually set foot in the factory.

wolverine876 3y ago

> “Why are they not jailed for breaking and entering?” Tesla CEO Elon Musk said on X. On non-engineering issues, at least, Musk isn't an original thinker. He just follows the instructions of the people constructing reactionary campaigns. Deligtimizing protest (just like deligitimizing the free press, academia, and other institutions of democracy) is the latest campaign, and Musk picks up on it and of course on the rhetorical tactics (as if he's unaware that people haven't been protesting all his life and for centuries before). What original idea has he had on non-engineering issues? Also difficult is his sudden law-and-order belief, while he violates laws and other rules openly.

librasteve 3y ago

we would welcome a Tesla factory in the UK (oh darn, forgot Brexit)