6 ms·

> Actually, what’s the most useful way you’d prepare for a worldwide grid outage? Be on a government payroll and have the skills necessary to repair the damage

> Actually, what’s the most useful way you’d prepare for a worldwide grid outage? Be on a government payroll and have the skills necessary to repair the damage.

belter 3y ago
Or load on ammunition, and be ready for your neighbor to go cannibalistic within 3 months...
- remlov 3y ago
  Try days, not months. Especially in densely populated areas.
  - mberning 3y ago
    The government has done studies showing that the vast majority of the population would be dead not long after a sustained nationwide power outage. All it takes is people missing a few meals before the fun starts.
    - N0b8ez 3y ago
      Do you have a link to the study?
      - mberning 3y ago
        I had to dig around but I think this the one I remember. There are two other reports linked in the comments. https://old.reddit.com/r/preppers/comments/11tblpp/found_it_the_2008_study_on_the_effect_of_us_grid/ https://old.reddit.com/r/preppers/comments/11tblpp/found_it_...
        N0b8ez 3y ago
        Thanks! This is the doc I found the "90 percent of our population is dead" quote from, which is asserted indirectly: https://irp.fas.org/congress/2008_hr/emp.pdf https://irp.fas.org/congress/2008_hr/emp.pdf It's referring to a fictional story in that quote, but the scientist says that 90% is accurate for the real world if that scenario were to happen. Pretty chilling.
        big_whack 2y ago
        This is an interesting read. I noticed also that Roscoe Bartlett, the rep running that hearing, moved entirely off the grid after retirement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscoe_Bartlett#Personal_life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscoe_Bartlett#Personal_life
        defrost 2y ago
        He was born in 1926, he grew up "of the grid" and likely spent most of his early life mostly off grid. It's not especially noteworthy .. to those of us that also grew up away from large connected services - you have your own sewerage, generators, mail, drive | walk to town to pick things up. Currently I'm "mostly" off grid - I have internet connection, a well, leach drains, solar + wind (electric) + wind (mechanical mill), etc and live in a rural community with a lot of people older than 60 who also grew up off grid.
        jll29 2y ago
        > Their cabin lacks electricity, phone service, and municipal plumbing. Bartlett currently works as a senior consultant for Lineage Technologies, a cyber security group that seeks to protect supply chains.[39] Bartlett is a vegetarian and does not drink alcohol or smoke. He also grows his own organic vegetables. Reads more like a self-written personal home page than an encyclopedia entry produced by independent volunteers.
  - wing-_-nuts 3y ago
    You do realize humanity has had countless famines before right? I grant you, a few of them brought out a regrettable side of humanity but by and large people come together during times of hardship, they don't tear each other apart. I feel like only those who've never felt hunger could contemplate such a savage reaction.
    - belter 3y ago
      And I hope you realize China had multiple famines with cannibalistic events as recent as 1959: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine
      - wing-_-nuts 3y ago
        I hope you realize that about a million people died during the Irish great famine with almost no events of cannibalism. Suggesting that it's a normal occurrence during famine is very insulting to the character of those that survived those famines while still upholding basic human decency.
        decremental 3y ago
        [dead]
        fullspectrumdev 2y ago
        Irish person here: the “almost no” is being disputed by more recent scholarship/research. And was even featured in a documentary from the national broadcaster a few years ago. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/role-of-survivor-cannibalism-during-great-famine-detailed-in-new-tv-documentary-1.4423323 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/role-of-s...
      - throwway120385 3y ago
        I hope you realize that these events are notable because they are unusual and not because they are the rule.
- holoduke 3y ago
  Days. After the soviet union fell in Armenia there was no supply of food the first days. Also no gasoline nothing. The first day people were normal. Second day people started stealing. Third day all birds and rats were shot for food. Luckely soon food became a normal thing again. But chaos is quickly there. I believe even quicker in rich western countries. Most men and women cant survive on their own for a week.
  - vbezhenar 3y ago
    You can survive with no food for a week. And you can use water from toilet tank for this week.
    - ianburrell 2y ago
      Most people have a weeks worth of food in their house. Unless they are people who don't cook. It is easy to make that longer by keeping extras of stable food they normally eat. I like to keep extras of everything I use regularly. Which really helped during the pandemic.
      - b112 2y ago
        While I agree, I think many apartment dwellers have less storage. Home owners tend to have more, just due to that extra space. But the other factor is, some people literally only eat pre-made food, which often a large portion consists of frozen things. I've been in some homes, mostly single people, which have no flour, rice, oats, etc. No real raw materials, such as eggs or butter. No canned food. Maybe a jar of peanut butter and a loaf of bread, and a package of processed meat in the fridge. The rest are frozen things like prepared chicken wings, and so on. What I wonder is, what are the percentages of people in these situations? 20%?
  - Terr_ 2y ago
    Tangentially, that's a reason not to use any "cleaning" additives in your toilet water tank, since you are rendering some emergency water undrinkable.
gosub100 3y ago
Part of what makes me take prepping seriously is that the majority of payments are electronic now and there is no failover as far as I'm aware. In ~2015 I saw a power outage briefly take down the payment processsor at a grocery store. despite having cash I could not check out. If something like that happens but sustained long enough to cause a mob to loot the store (which the media would of course amplify), it wouldn't be long before there was widespread panic. It's not the CME itself that terrifies me, but the knock-on effects.
- javajosh 3y ago
  It's really too bad we didn't have a major CME in the 90's. That was the perfect time for a good lesson in redundancy and why you can't and shouldn't jettison "the old ways" so quickly. Perhaps its not too late now, but the pain will be considerably higher. Earth lucked out in so many ways, but a CME spanking in the 1990's is asking for too much I guess.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    That's just the anthropic principle for you: If we'd have been any less lucky, we wouldn't be here to write about it :)
    - gosub100 2y ago
      I think you miss the point s/he's making: back in the 90's we were much less reliant on computers than today, much more cash based. It would have been a wake-up call, today it would be a calamity.
      - freshpretzels 2y ago
        The 90s were not that long ago, we should restore and document and know the old cash-based ways while we still have those experts and those workers with us. Great thread and reminder about these things.
  - gosub100 3y ago

> Actually, what’s the most useful way you’d prepare for a worldwide grid outage? Be on a government payroll and have the skills necessary to repair the damage.

belter 3y ago

Or load on ammunition, and be ready for your neighbor to go cannibalistic within 3 months...

remlov 3y ago
Try days, not months. Especially in densely populated areas.
- mberning 3y ago
  The government has done studies showing that the vast majority of the population would be dead not long after a sustained nationwide power outage. All it takes is people missing a few meals before the fun starts.
  - N0b8ez 3y ago
    Do you have a link to the study?
    - mberning 3y ago
      I had to dig around but I think this the one I remember. There are two other reports linked in the comments. https://old.reddit.com/r/preppers/comments/11tblpp/found_it_the_2008_study_on_the_effect_of_us_grid/ https://old.reddit.com/r/preppers/comments/11tblpp/found_it_...
      - N0b8ez 3y ago
        Thanks! This is the doc I found the "90 percent of our population is dead" quote from, which is asserted indirectly: https://irp.fas.org/congress/2008_hr/emp.pdf https://irp.fas.org/congress/2008_hr/emp.pdf It's referring to a fictional story in that quote, but the scientist says that 90% is accurate for the real world if that scenario were to happen. Pretty chilling.
        big_whack 2y ago
        This is an interesting read. I noticed also that Roscoe Bartlett, the rep running that hearing, moved entirely off the grid after retirement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscoe_Bartlett#Personal_life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscoe_Bartlett#Personal_life
        defrost 2y ago
        He was born in 1926, he grew up "of the grid" and likely spent most of his early life mostly off grid. It's not especially noteworthy .. to those of us that also grew up away from large connected services - you have your own sewerage, generators, mail, drive | walk to town to pick things up. Currently I'm "mostly" off grid - I have internet connection, a well, leach drains, solar + wind (electric) + wind (mechanical mill), etc and live in a rural community with a lot of people older than 60 who also grew up off grid.
        jll29 2y ago
        > Their cabin lacks electricity, phone service, and municipal plumbing. Bartlett currently works as a senior consultant for Lineage Technologies, a cyber security group that seeks to protect supply chains.[39] Bartlett is a vegetarian and does not drink alcohol or smoke. He also grows his own organic vegetables. Reads more like a self-written personal home page than an encyclopedia entry produced by independent volunteers.
- wing-_-nuts 3y ago
  You do realize humanity has had countless famines before right? I grant you, a few of them brought out a regrettable side of humanity but by and large people come together during times of hardship, they don't tear each other apart. I feel like only those who've never felt hunger could contemplate such a savage reaction.
  - belter 3y ago
    And I hope you realize China had multiple famines with cannibalistic events as recent as 1959: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine
    - wing-_-nuts 3y ago
      I hope you realize that about a million people died during the Irish great famine with almost no events of cannibalism. Suggesting that it's a normal occurrence during famine is very insulting to the character of those that survived those famines while still upholding basic human decency.
      - decremental 3y ago
        [dead]
      - fullspectrumdev 2y ago
        Irish person here: the “almost no” is being disputed by more recent scholarship/research. And was even featured in a documentary from the national broadcaster a few years ago. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/role-of-survivor-cannibalism-during-great-famine-detailed-in-new-tv-documentary-1.4423323 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/role-of-s...
    - throwway120385 3y ago
      I hope you realize that these events are notable because they are unusual and not because they are the rule.
holoduke 3y ago
Days. After the soviet union fell in Armenia there was no supply of food the first days. Also no gasoline nothing. The first day people were normal. Second day people started stealing. Third day all birds and rats were shot for food. Luckely soon food became a normal thing again. But chaos is quickly there. I believe even quicker in rich western countries. Most men and women cant survive on their own for a week.
- vbezhenar 3y ago
  You can survive with no food for a week. And you can use water from toilet tank for this week.
  - ianburrell 2y ago
    Most people have a weeks worth of food in their house. Unless they are people who don't cook. It is easy to make that longer by keeping extras of stable food they normally eat. I like to keep extras of everything I use regularly. Which really helped during the pandemic.
    - b112 2y ago
      While I agree, I think many apartment dwellers have less storage. Home owners tend to have more, just due to that extra space. But the other factor is, some people literally only eat pre-made food, which often a large portion consists of frozen things. I've been in some homes, mostly single people, which have no flour, rice, oats, etc. No real raw materials, such as eggs or butter. No canned food. Maybe a jar of peanut butter and a loaf of bread, and a package of processed meat in the fridge. The rest are frozen things like prepared chicken wings, and so on. What I wonder is, what are the percentages of people in these situations? 20%?
- Terr_ 2y ago
  Tangentially, that's a reason not to use any "cleaning" additives in your toilet water tank, since you are rendering some emergency water undrinkable.

gosub100 3y ago

Part of what makes me take prepping seriously is that the majority of payments are electronic now and there is no failover as far as I'm aware. In ~2015 I saw a power outage briefly take down the payment processsor at a grocery store. despite having cash I could not check out. If something like that happens but sustained long enough to cause a mob to loot the store (which the media would of course amplify), it wouldn't be long before there was widespread panic. It's not the CME itself that terrifies me, but the knock-on effects.

javajosh 3y ago
It's really too bad we didn't have a major CME in the 90's. That was the perfect time for a good lesson in redundancy and why you can't and shouldn't jettison "the old ways" so quickly. Perhaps its not too late now, but the pain will be considerably higher. Earth lucked out in so many ways, but a CME spanking in the 1990's is asking for too much I guess.
- lxgr 3y ago
  That's just the anthropic principle for you: If we'd have been any less lucky, we wouldn't be here to write about it :)
  - gosub100 2y ago
    I think you miss the point s/he's making: back in the 90's we were much less reliant on computers than today, much more cash based. It would have been a wake-up call, today it would be a calamity.
    - freshpretzels 2y ago
      The 90s were not that long ago, we should restore and document and know the old cash-based ways while we still have those experts and those workers with us. Great thread and reminder about these things.
- gosub100 3y ago