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What specifically did they do? I can say that I've been treated very badly by Private Equity and other employers myself, but it's easy to lack perspective and I

What specifically did they do? I can say that I've been treated very badly by Private Equity and other employers myself, but it's easy to lack perspective and I don't really feel like trying to enter a victim contest. Hopefully I've learned enough to avoid that kind of employment in future.

alephnerd 2y ago
In IB/PE we have exit opps like VC or PM, and there is a reckoning in IB/PE leadership that the old school 60-100 hour analyst work culture is toxic. In Korean companies, the work culture is still stuck in the 90s era IB mentality, as a lot of management are much older and started their careers when chauvanism, racism, functional alcoholism, power politics, overwork, etc was still the norm. Tbf, SK was still a developing country until 10-15ish years ago.
- silverquiet 2y ago
  I'm assuming IB = investment banking, PE = private equity, VC = venture capital, and PM = public market. To be clear, I did not work for a private equity firm itself (I do not posses the psychopathic ambition required to do so), but for a company that ended up owned by a firm; that was the terrible experience.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    By PM I meant Product Management. A lot of PMs with MBAs are burned out IB Analysts who did the MBA to escape the grind. > for a company that ended up owned by a firm; that was the terrible experience. That's a bit different. Depending on the type of PE, it may have been a PE of last resort. You only sell to Thoma Bravo if your company is an absolute dumpster fire and has no roadmap forward, so it needs drastic restructuring. Sucks for line level ICs ofc.
    - silverquiet 2y ago
      It was Apollo, but asking me to differentiate between them would be like the dentist asking me which drill I'd prefer; I really don't know the technical details, but they all seem very unpleasant.
      - alephnerd 2y ago
        PE is a broad industry, as it literally just means allocation of capital in the private market. For example, VC is a subset of PE. Apollo, KKR, Guggenheim, and Thoma Bravo are PE funds that have practices dedicated to acquiring non-performing assets (basically companies that are near the verge of collapse)
- hollywood_court 2y ago
  I didn't realize that South Korean was so behind the times until I read "Human Acts" by Han Kang. That book led me to perform quite a bit of research and further reading on Korea.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    The US has plenty of issues, but a lot of Americans take for granted that most countries have even worse work cultures or compensation structures. That said, it's good for us to keep striving to find an ideal balance between work and personal life.
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      This is why I love birth rates declining: makes labor scarce and forces the better treatment of those still in the labor force. We won’t find better work life balance until workers organize and old folks in charge with old ideas and values die out.
      - alephnerd 2y ago
        > why I love birth rates declining: makes labor scarce and forces the better treatment of those still in the labor force I'd like to have Social Security benefits in 30-40 years tbh, so not a fan of potentially declining birth rates. That said, immigration is absolutely our superpower, and something we need to support.
        toomuchtodo 2y ago
        We see the world differently, but I don’t fault your incentives and desired outcome. I see this as an empowerment and agency issue in a suboptimal economic system (working humans hard or to death without a lot of options, depending on jurisdiction, treating humans as a resource to extract from, broadly speaking). (I am bootstrapping a non profit to buy unwanted fertility, funded through carbon markets; bias disclosed)
        tharmas 2y ago
hollywood_court 2y ago
For us regular US employees it was 6 days a week 12 hours per day. If you were more than 90 seconds late clocking in you were written up. 3 write ups and you're gone. 30 minute unpaid lunch break, but you weren't allowed to leave the site. To be honest, the strict stuff like that wasn't applicable to me because I was the only one there who could run the 5 axis CNC machines and edit the code. Everyone else was disposable. One of the most memorable examples of not being treated like a human was when a coworker of mine wished to take one hour off in order to see his daughter graduate from high school. He had 4 kids at one time. But he lost one to cancer and two others to gang violence. He put in a time off request more than 5 months in advance so he could see his only remaining child graduate. They denied his request. On the day of the graduation he clocked out and went to the graduation. He was gone maybe 35 minutes total. He saw his daughter walk across the stage and then he returned to work. They were waiting for him at the time clock and fired him. When it comes to the interns, I saw a lot of yelling, grabbing by the arms while admonishing, and making them work without meals. All of the full time Korean employees had their lunch catered every day. The interns weren't allowed to eat with the full time employees and they weren't allowed to take any kind of meal breaks at all as for as I know. I'm sure there was much more that went on behind closed doors, but seeing grown men grab 19 year old girls by their arms and shake them while yelling at them was pretty enlightening.
- natsucks 2y ago
  terrible.
- idunnoman1222 2y ago
  What’s really appalling is the lack of solidarity.
  - hollywood_court 2y ago
    Solidarity is frowned upon here in Alabama. Our own governor has recently been doing her best to prevent any kind of worker solidarity.
- dh2022 2y ago

alephnerd 2y ago

In IB/PE we have exit opps like VC or PM, and there is a reckoning in IB/PE leadership that the old school 60-100 hour analyst work culture is toxic. In Korean companies, the work culture is still stuck in the 90s era IB mentality, as a lot of management are much older and started their careers when chauvanism, racism, functional alcoholism, power politics, overwork, etc was still the norm. Tbf, SK was still a developing country until 10-15ish years ago.

silverquiet 2y ago
I'm assuming IB = investment banking, PE = private equity, VC = venture capital, and PM = public market. To be clear, I did not work for a private equity firm itself (I do not posses the psychopathic ambition required to do so), but for a company that ended up owned by a firm; that was the terrible experience.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  By PM I meant Product Management. A lot of PMs with MBAs are burned out IB Analysts who did the MBA to escape the grind. > for a company that ended up owned by a firm; that was the terrible experience. That's a bit different. Depending on the type of PE, it may have been a PE of last resort. You only sell to Thoma Bravo if your company is an absolute dumpster fire and has no roadmap forward, so it needs drastic restructuring. Sucks for line level ICs ofc.
  - silverquiet 2y ago
    It was Apollo, but asking me to differentiate between them would be like the dentist asking me which drill I'd prefer; I really don't know the technical details, but they all seem very unpleasant.
    - alephnerd 2y ago
      PE is a broad industry, as it literally just means allocation of capital in the private market. For example, VC is a subset of PE. Apollo, KKR, Guggenheim, and Thoma Bravo are PE funds that have practices dedicated to acquiring non-performing assets (basically companies that are near the verge of collapse)
hollywood_court 2y ago
I didn't realize that South Korean was so behind the times until I read "Human Acts" by Han Kang. That book led me to perform quite a bit of research and further reading on Korea.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  The US has plenty of issues, but a lot of Americans take for granted that most countries have even worse work cultures or compensation structures. That said, it's good for us to keep striving to find an ideal balance between work and personal life.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    This is why I love birth rates declining: makes labor scarce and forces the better treatment of those still in the labor force. We won’t find better work life balance until workers organize and old folks in charge with old ideas and values die out.
    - alephnerd 2y ago
      > why I love birth rates declining: makes labor scarce and forces the better treatment of those still in the labor force I'd like to have Social Security benefits in 30-40 years tbh, so not a fan of potentially declining birth rates. That said, immigration is absolutely our superpower, and something we need to support.
      - toomuchtodo 2y ago
        We see the world differently, but I don’t fault your incentives and desired outcome. I see this as an empowerment and agency issue in a suboptimal economic system (working humans hard or to death without a lot of options, depending on jurisdiction, treating humans as a resource to extract from, broadly speaking). (I am bootstrapping a non profit to buy unwanted fertility, funded through carbon markets; bias disclosed)
      - tharmas 2y ago

hollywood_court 2y ago

For us regular US employees it was 6 days a week 12 hours per day. If you were more than 90 seconds late clocking in you were written up. 3 write ups and you're gone. 30 minute unpaid lunch break, but you weren't allowed to leave the site. To be honest, the strict stuff like that wasn't applicable to me because I was the only one there who could run the 5 axis CNC machines and edit the code. Everyone else was disposable. One of the most memorable examples of not being treated like a human was when a coworker of mine wished to take one hour off in order to see his daughter graduate from high school. He had 4 kids at one time. But he lost one to cancer and two others to gang violence. He put in a time off request more than 5 months in advance so he could see his only remaining child graduate. They denied his request. On the day of the graduation he clocked out and went to the graduation. He was gone maybe 35 minutes total. He saw his daughter walk across the stage and then he returned to work. They were waiting for him at the time clock and fired him. When it comes to the interns, I saw a lot of yelling, grabbing by the arms while admonishing, and making them work without meals. All of the full time Korean employees had their lunch catered every day. The interns weren't allowed to eat with the full time employees and they weren't allowed to take any kind of meal breaks at all as for as I know. I'm sure there was much more that went on behind closed doors, but seeing grown men grab 19 year old girls by their arms and shake them while yelling at them was pretty enlightening.

natsucks 2y ago
terrible.
idunnoman1222 2y ago
What’s really appalling is the lack of solidarity.
- hollywood_court 2y ago
  Solidarity is frowned upon here in Alabama. Our own governor has recently been doing her best to prevent any kind of worker solidarity.
dh2022 2y ago