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Not so funny for Japan considering that immigration is the only way they can handle their rapidly aging population. I hope they can get their decade old humano

by i5heu 2y ago

Not so funny for Japan considering that immigration is the only way they can handle their rapidly aging population. I hope they can get their decade old humanoid robot research fast enough to production, otherwise i really don't see how they can provide for their population while having to care for 35% to 40% of the population that is over 64. And since it does not look like it, the realization that migrants are not sub humans and actually quite value will hit hard.

sanitycheck 2y ago
One thing they can do is incentivise women to rejoin the workforce after having kids, another is raise the retirement age to 70+. I think we'll see both in the next 5-10 years. Maybe they can kill two birds with one stone and have OAPs work as childcare providers. On the topic of this "intern" scheme, I've seen a couple of NHK documentaries on it in the past year or two so it's definitely in the public consciousness now - although I get the impression the response it's got hasn't matched the outrage I would have hoped for. From what I saw a "technical intern" is another name for a farm/factory labourer, which is almost beyond parody. In February the "technical intern" program was abolished and a new system set up in its place. I'm doubtful it will be much better, but I guess we'll find out eventually.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  > is incentivise women to rejoin the workforce after having kids They already did that - it was a core plank of Abenomics. > raise the retirement age to 70+ Highly unlikely. It would be politically untenable and the LDP is dependent on a coalition with Komeito, which is heavily in favor of the welfare state. > I'm doubtful it will be much better, but I guess we'll find out eventually It won't get better. Same abuse but with a different name.
Workaccount2 2y ago
I honestly think one of Americas greatest strengths is the ability to move here from where ever and be able to join society with relatively low friction. People go on and on about racism in America, but I have generally found that those people have absolutely no fucking idea what racism in a society actually looks like. You wanna see racism? Go be a minority in any country with a 90% majority race/culture. Edit: Invariably people need to confuse "Racism is a bigger issue in other countries than the US" with "Racism never existed in the US".
- alephnerd 2y ago
  I literally got into an argument with a couple Germans on HN about this earlier today.
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  I don't think that's cause to dismiss the very real experiences of racism that people do have in the US. Racism kills people here too.
- silverquiet 2y ago
  When my dad was a kid, black Americans couldn't use the same water fountain as whites; it's not exactly ancient history. My grandparents wouldn't share rooms with black people at their nursing homes, and I'm talking about a couple years ago. It didn't all end because LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act. At some point I think it might have been better when it was all out in the open, so at least you knew what was going on.
  - throwaway743 2y ago
    Stories of discrimination would come up quite a bit about my father (black). One time, he and my mother (white) were apartment hunting and this one landlord was excited to show them, when speaking over the phone. Once they showed up to check it out, that asshole slammed the door in their faces. Discrimination persists through all aspects of life, employment, housing, etc. It's pathetic, really.
- walthamstow 2y ago
  Racism in the US is less to do with the people who moved there and more to do with the people who were taken there. The USA was an apartheid country in the Jim Crow era. What could be more racist than segregation? Jim Crow apartheid was so deeply pervasive that WW2 soldiers blood transfusion packets were segregated, so a stricken white soldier wouldn't be tarnished with black blood. That's quite something when you're fighting against the Nazis.
  - Workaccount2 2y ago
kstenerud 2y ago
> I hope they can get their decade old humanoid robot research fast enough to production, otherwise i really don't see how they can provide for their population while having to care for 35% to 40% of the population that is over 64. Aaaaaaand cue Roujin Z https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEKTFwkuDps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEKTFwkuDps
maxglute 2y ago
>only way they can handle their rapidly aging population There's always the unspoken option, which is to not handle geriatric care well at all. Old people have been dying neglected and alone in JP for a while. When shit critically hits the fan, geriatric population will be either too senile to vote, or if they can vote, too weak to protest, and thus can be easily ignored as a bloc. Goal of cycling through disposable migrants to do shit jobs locals don't want to do is to keep value positive sectors crunching. IMO different dynamic when it's coming out of pockets of already squeezed tax base to take care of boomers. There'sgoing to be a lot of, you lived a long life, so sad, too bad, because good luck convincing ethnocentric youth to take another L for the team by treating migrants better, the only social prestige pressed these days is knowing outsiders have it worse. Societies have no problem finding a way to be callous to poor, kids, women, minorities etc, they'll find a way to rationalize being incredibly callous to elders.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  > which is to not handle geriatric care well at all There is a recent Japanese Sci-Fi movie that came out at Cannes recently called Plan 75 [0] that touches on that option Ofc, Japan is a democracy and old people vote. Even if the LDP ruled for much of Japan's democratic history, it's still vulnerable to losing power due to public anger (eg. Kishida's corruption scandal). Imagine how angrier Japanese voters would be with horrible geriatric care. [0] - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-at2w5ORFfE https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-at2w5ORFfE
  - maxglute 2y ago
    I went to viewing of this during TIFF last year. But unfortunately ZZZ through most of it, no fault of the film which I enjoyed for the parts I was up. >Japan is a democracy and old people vote I think when non-working gerontocratic voting block interests confronts with interests of tax paying workforce trying to keep head above water, the elderly are going to lose. When under 50 year olds have to decide between their reduction in their QoL / services vs neglecting the old, including their own kin, they're going to eventually chose to throw their kin under the bus. If problem is just structurally not resolvable (which IMO it's not), LDP will claw their way back from whoever the next DPJ upstart is after they fail. Which is to say, I can imagine JP getting some robots going, and some migrant worker for elderly care, but if neither is enough, I think more likely politics will over promise and underdeliver until elderly accept their lot because you can only push the young so much. It's going to take a few political cycles for people to accept the "normal", but if any "democracy" can rig the system to survive that process, it's LDP/Japan.
downrightmike 2y ago
Dead body cleanup is going to be a booming career

by i5heu 2y ago

sanitycheck 2y ago

One thing they can do is incentivise women to rejoin the workforce after having kids, another is raise the retirement age to 70+. I think we'll see both in the next 5-10 years. Maybe they can kill two birds with one stone and have OAPs work as childcare providers. On the topic of this "intern" scheme, I've seen a couple of NHK documentaries on it in the past year or two so it's definitely in the public consciousness now - although I get the impression the response it's got hasn't matched the outrage I would have hoped for. From what I saw a "technical intern" is another name for a farm/factory labourer, which is almost beyond parody. In February the "technical intern" program was abolished and a new system set up in its place. I'm doubtful it will be much better, but I guess we'll find out eventually.

alephnerd 2y ago
> is incentivise women to rejoin the workforce after having kids They already did that - it was a core plank of Abenomics. > raise the retirement age to 70+ Highly unlikely. It would be politically untenable and the LDP is dependent on a coalition with Komeito, which is heavily in favor of the welfare state. > I'm doubtful it will be much better, but I guess we'll find out eventually It won't get better. Same abuse but with a different name.

Workaccount2 2y ago

I honestly think one of Americas greatest strengths is the ability to move here from where ever and be able to join society with relatively low friction. People go on and on about racism in America, but I have generally found that those people have absolutely no fucking idea what racism in a society actually looks like. You wanna see racism? Go be a minority in any country with a 90% majority race/culture. Edit: Invariably people need to confuse "Racism is a bigger issue in other countries than the US" with "Racism never existed in the US".

alephnerd 2y ago
I literally got into an argument with a couple Germans on HN about this earlier today.
giraffe_lady 2y ago
I don't think that's cause to dismiss the very real experiences of racism that people do have in the US. Racism kills people here too.
silverquiet 2y ago
When my dad was a kid, black Americans couldn't use the same water fountain as whites; it's not exactly ancient history. My grandparents wouldn't share rooms with black people at their nursing homes, and I'm talking about a couple years ago. It didn't all end because LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act. At some point I think it might have been better when it was all out in the open, so at least you knew what was going on.
- throwaway743 2y ago
  Stories of discrimination would come up quite a bit about my father (black). One time, he and my mother (white) were apartment hunting and this one landlord was excited to show them, when speaking over the phone. Once they showed up to check it out, that asshole slammed the door in their faces. Discrimination persists through all aspects of life, employment, housing, etc. It's pathetic, really.
walthamstow 2y ago
Racism in the US is less to do with the people who moved there and more to do with the people who were taken there. The USA was an apartheid country in the Jim Crow era. What could be more racist than segregation? Jim Crow apartheid was so deeply pervasive that WW2 soldiers blood transfusion packets were segregated, so a stricken white soldier wouldn't be tarnished with black blood. That's quite something when you're fighting against the Nazis.
- Workaccount2 2y ago

kstenerud 2y ago

> I hope they can get their decade old humanoid robot research fast enough to production, otherwise i really don't see how they can provide for their population while having to care for 35% to 40% of the population that is over 64. Aaaaaaand cue Roujin Z https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEKTFwkuDps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEKTFwkuDps

maxglute 2y ago

>only way they can handle their rapidly aging population There's always the unspoken option, which is to not handle geriatric care well at all. Old people have been dying neglected and alone in JP for a while. When shit critically hits the fan, geriatric population will be either too senile to vote, or if they can vote, too weak to protest, and thus can be easily ignored as a bloc. Goal of cycling through disposable migrants to do shit jobs locals don't want to do is to keep value positive sectors crunching. IMO different dynamic when it's coming out of pockets of already squeezed tax base to take care of boomers. There'sgoing to be a lot of, you lived a long life, so sad, too bad, because good luck convincing ethnocentric youth to take another L for the team by treating migrants better, the only social prestige pressed these days is knowing outsiders have it worse. Societies have no problem finding a way to be callous to poor, kids, women, minorities etc, they'll find a way to rationalize being incredibly callous to elders.

alephnerd 2y ago
> which is to not handle geriatric care well at all There is a recent Japanese Sci-Fi movie that came out at Cannes recently called Plan 75 [0] that touches on that option Ofc, Japan is a democracy and old people vote. Even if the LDP ruled for much of Japan's democratic history, it's still vulnerable to losing power due to public anger (eg. Kishida's corruption scandal). Imagine how angrier Japanese voters would be with horrible geriatric care. [0] - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-at2w5ORFfE https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-at2w5ORFfE
- maxglute 2y ago
  I went to viewing of this during TIFF last year. But unfortunately ZZZ through most of it, no fault of the film which I enjoyed for the parts I was up. >Japan is a democracy and old people vote I think when non-working gerontocratic voting block interests confronts with interests of tax paying workforce trying to keep head above water, the elderly are going to lose. When under 50 year olds have to decide between their reduction in their QoL / services vs neglecting the old, including their own kin, they're going to eventually chose to throw their kin under the bus. If problem is just structurally not resolvable (which IMO it's not), LDP will claw their way back from whoever the next DPJ upstart is after they fail. Which is to say, I can imagine JP getting some robots going, and some migrant worker for elderly care, but if neither is enough, I think more likely politics will over promise and underdeliver until elderly accept their lot because you can only push the young so much. It's going to take a few political cycles for people to accept the "normal", but if any "democracy" can rig the system to survive that process, it's LDP/Japan.

downrightmike 2y ago

Dead body cleanup is going to be a booming career