7 ms·

So what are the opportunities there? Opening shop in spain to take advantage of an educated and competitive workforce?? Or it follows the greek way avoiding it

by guylhem 14y ago

So what are the opportunities there? Opening shop in spain to take advantage of an educated and competitive workforce?? Or it follows the greek way avoiding it altogether???

ekianjo 14y ago
It depends a lot on how the local government want to address the issues of the debt. If it goes through massive tax increase, it's probably not a good time to setup a business there.
johnnyg 14y ago
Best opportunity is to invest in physical silver and gold, as the euro (and by extension the dollar) will not be able to hold their value as the printing presses run ever faster...
- modeless 14y ago
  (and by extension the dollar) How does an inflating euro cause inflation in the dollar?
  - johnnyg 14y ago
    The bonds Greece/Spain/Portugal hold and are defaulting on were largely purchased by German and French banks. These banks turned around and hedged the default risk with US banks. When the defaults occur (or if...they could choose to inflate to the moon or call the default by another name), the German banks will go to their US Bank counter parties asking to be made whole en mass. US banks will be unable to cover this pay out (unless the fed steps in with truly massive amounts of capital) and have no real reason to do so... What we saw in the US housing crisis is now playing out on a scale of nations.
  - maratd 14y ago
    It doesn't. But we're doing the same thing they are ... ergo, the same thing will happen here.
- confluence 14y ago
  Yeah, you're a fool for thinking such a thing. Seriously, all the commodities guys are. If you look at gold/silver demand guess what the major determinant is - OH YEAH - JEWELLERY! You know the stuff people buy when veblen goods are popular (i.e. a strong world economy). Your baubles are worth nothing if the 2 largest economies go down. Everyone dumped emerging markets, the euro and stocks to buy dollars and treasuries (flight to quality during high vol.). Not because anything drastically changed, but because of the beauty contest dynamic in markets. You predict what others may predict to happen in the short term and act accordingly. Go buy yourself a gun, food, and some survival training if that is your position. You can't eat gold. You can't live in silver. And you most certainly can't sell it when everything goes down. Here's a hedge fund analyst's take on it: http://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-price-of-gold-rising http://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-price-of-gold-rising. Notice the graph and its constituents. Gold/Silver guys mock us fiat currency types (i.e. everyone) when they themselves are trading the same trust based tulips as the rest of us. Everything you trade is based on trust, and trust is, and always will be, a bet on the future being better. Gold/Silver is a bet for the world getting better, not worse. You can't invest in the end of the world. You can merely prepare for it.
  - johnnyg 14y ago
    Glad there are still some counter parties left to take my trades. Enjoy your tbills! :-)
    - confluence 14y ago
      Well seeing as my tbills represent the future output of the world's largest economies, and one of the greatest consumers of veblen goods (which includes most of the demand for your commodities), you and I aren't so different. We bet the same. But you have no idea what you're doing. I merely wish to point out that you can't bet for the end of the world. You can merely prepare for it.
      - toomuchtodo 14y ago
        I can short the end of the world; as long as there is enough time between when I profit and when I cash that profit out into something that will provide me with long term value (house, etc). For this argument, I define value as providing ME something, not value that can be traded.
mipapage 14y ago
Its still too early, IMO. Prices aren't that cheap yet and the cost of living, while cheap, hasn't plummeted. Yes, there are a lot of people out of work, but speaking with a few folks in the last 6 months they say it is still hard to fill IT jobs. Wait until (if) Spain exits, then capitalize. But remember, the work ethic here is not the same as elsewhere. And people who don't fit that mold are leaving the country. If it doesn't exit... Hard to see what will happen here.
- tluyben2 14y ago
  That's what I see; we tried to establish a developer team in Spain and we found out that good people went to Germany and a large portion of the remainder don't actually don't want to work. We are talking university level CS people. I was amazed by this. Even when I met one who was willing to work he wanted a contract for life and part time. I know a lot of kids there who finished school, live with their parents on (some kind of; I'm not totally clear on this; I know they receive a few $100/month) benefits. I'm from the Netherlands and this concept is alien to me. None of the people from the schools I went to would consider living off benefits unless very ill or something like that; the ones who did not get a regular job opened companies. Probably it depends on the part of Spain but it was a strange experience.
  - mipapage 14y ago
    I'm Canadian and have lived here (Spain) for 10 years. I think it is partly a generational thing. If you find a mid-30's developer with kids, my experience is they will take what they can get. The trouble is, as you said, many have left (I know a few now in Germany) and others have simply created their own little space/niche of work. The younger gen seems exactly as you say: back to home, parents footing the cost (I know one guy whose parent's are paying the loan on his BMW!). At some point the pain is going to become too much and the "ni-ni"s, as they call them, are going to have to do something. Their country has already been sold, what next?
    - tluyben2 14y ago
      It might be true about the mid-30s for developers, but as anecdote: I read in a local newspaper about a small taxi company almost going bankrupt and we needed a taxi for quite a bit of a ride. So I called them, asked if they had time for a half day ride; they guy sounded happy and said they had. Then I told him where we live. No that was too far away (it isn't; it's a little more than half an hour drive from him); I told him we would pay for it. But it was a definite no; too far he wouldn't do it. I see that mentality everywhere; builders (who are all out of a job now), pool cleaners, car repair etc. If something is slightly out of the comfort zone it's usually a no. How bad does it need to become before people see it doesn't work that way (anymore; obviously before 2008, if you were lucky and not too greedy, money was rather 'free' for a lot of people; for instance the local bar owner didn't have to work at all; his bar was packed every day before 2008 so he hired people, put the profit into building; unfortunately he got out too late and there you go; hard working which he 'doesn't do'. Rather live in poverty.).

by guylhem 14y ago

So what are the opportunities there? Opening shop in spain to take advantage of an educated and competitive workforce?? Or it follows the greek way avoiding it altogether???

ekianjo 14y ago

It depends a lot on how the local government want to address the issues of the debt. If it goes through massive tax increase, it's probably not a good time to setup a business there.

johnnyg 14y ago

Best opportunity is to invest in physical silver and gold, as the euro (and by extension the dollar) will not be able to hold their value as the printing presses run ever faster...

modeless 14y ago
(and by extension the dollar) How does an inflating euro cause inflation in the dollar?
- johnnyg 14y ago
  The bonds Greece/Spain/Portugal hold and are defaulting on were largely purchased by German and French banks. These banks turned around and hedged the default risk with US banks. When the defaults occur (or if...they could choose to inflate to the moon or call the default by another name), the German banks will go to their US Bank counter parties asking to be made whole en mass. US banks will be unable to cover this pay out (unless the fed steps in with truly massive amounts of capital) and have no real reason to do so... What we saw in the US housing crisis is now playing out on a scale of nations.
- maratd 14y ago
  It doesn't. But we're doing the same thing they are ... ergo, the same thing will happen here.
confluence 14y ago
Yeah, you're a fool for thinking such a thing. Seriously, all the commodities guys are. If you look at gold/silver demand guess what the major determinant is - OH YEAH - JEWELLERY! You know the stuff people buy when veblen goods are popular (i.e. a strong world economy). Your baubles are worth nothing if the 2 largest economies go down. Everyone dumped emerging markets, the euro and stocks to buy dollars and treasuries (flight to quality during high vol.). Not because anything drastically changed, but because of the beauty contest dynamic in markets. You predict what others may predict to happen in the short term and act accordingly. Go buy yourself a gun, food, and some survival training if that is your position. You can't eat gold. You can't live in silver. And you most certainly can't sell it when everything goes down. Here's a hedge fund analyst's take on it: http://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-price-of-gold-rising http://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-price-of-gold-rising. Notice the graph and its constituents. Gold/Silver guys mock us fiat currency types (i.e. everyone) when they themselves are trading the same trust based tulips as the rest of us. Everything you trade is based on trust, and trust is, and always will be, a bet on the future being better. Gold/Silver is a bet for the world getting better, not worse. You can't invest in the end of the world. You can merely prepare for it.
- johnnyg 14y ago
  Glad there are still some counter parties left to take my trades. Enjoy your tbills! :-)
  - confluence 14y ago
    Well seeing as my tbills represent the future output of the world's largest economies, and one of the greatest consumers of veblen goods (which includes most of the demand for your commodities), you and I aren't so different. We bet the same. But you have no idea what you're doing. I merely wish to point out that you can't bet for the end of the world. You can merely prepare for it.
    - toomuchtodo 14y ago
      I can short the end of the world; as long as there is enough time between when I profit and when I cash that profit out into something that will provide me with long term value (house, etc). For this argument, I define value as providing ME something, not value that can be traded.

mipapage 14y ago

Its still too early, IMO. Prices aren't that cheap yet and the cost of living, while cheap, hasn't plummeted. Yes, there are a lot of people out of work, but speaking with a few folks in the last 6 months they say it is still hard to fill IT jobs. Wait until (if) Spain exits, then capitalize. But remember, the work ethic here is not the same as elsewhere. And people who don't fit that mold are leaving the country. If it doesn't exit... Hard to see what will happen here.

tluyben2 14y ago
That's what I see; we tried to establish a developer team in Spain and we found out that good people went to Germany and a large portion of the remainder don't actually don't want to work. We are talking university level CS people. I was amazed by this. Even when I met one who was willing to work he wanted a contract for life and part time. I know a lot of kids there who finished school, live with their parents on (some kind of; I'm not totally clear on this; I know they receive a few $100/month) benefits. I'm from the Netherlands and this concept is alien to me. None of the people from the schools I went to would consider living off benefits unless very ill or something like that; the ones who did not get a regular job opened companies. Probably it depends on the part of Spain but it was a strange experience.
- mipapage 14y ago
  I'm Canadian and have lived here (Spain) for 10 years. I think it is partly a generational thing. If you find a mid-30's developer with kids, my experience is they will take what they can get. The trouble is, as you said, many have left (I know a few now in Germany) and others have simply created their own little space/niche of work. The younger gen seems exactly as you say: back to home, parents footing the cost (I know one guy whose parent's are paying the loan on his BMW!). At some point the pain is going to become too much and the "ni-ni"s, as they call them, are going to have to do something. Their country has already been sold, what next?
  - tluyben2 14y ago
    It might be true about the mid-30s for developers, but as anecdote: I read in a local newspaper about a small taxi company almost going bankrupt and we needed a taxi for quite a bit of a ride. So I called them, asked if they had time for a half day ride; they guy sounded happy and said they had. Then I told him where we live. No that was too far away (it isn't; it's a little more than half an hour drive from him); I told him we would pay for it. But it was a definite no; too far he wouldn't do it. I see that mentality everywhere; builders (who are all out of a job now), pool cleaners, car repair etc. If something is slightly out of the comfort zone it's usually a no. How bad does it need to become before people see it doesn't work that way (anymore; obviously before 2008, if you were lucky and not too greedy, money was rather 'free' for a lot of people; for instance the local bar owner didn't have to work at all; his bar was packed every day before 2008 so he hired people, put the profit into building; unfortunately he got out too late and there you go; hard working which he 'doesn't do'. Rather live in poverty.).