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> Most software outside Fedora's own repositories isn't available in 64-bit ARM (or "AArch64"), at least not without some deeper compilation and configuration w

> Most software outside Fedora's own repositories isn't available in 64-bit ARM (or "AArch64"), at least not without some deeper compilation and configuration work. That means no Slack or Steam for the time being. Really?! Is Slack — a glorified web browser — what people trying to run Linux on Apple hardware are looking for? Personally, I'm happy running Slack in Firefox. My main concern with the Asahi project is Apple's reluctance to help out. Personally I'd love to give them my money if I they would just stop pushing MacOS and force feeding their app store ecosystem. I don't mind well intended UX beloved by many consumers, but please make life a little easier on developers.

fader 2y ago
> I'd love to give them my money if I they would just stop pushing MacOS and force feeding their app store ecosystem. But that's opposed to Apple's revenue goals. They make far, far more money from services and their app ecosystem than from hardware. It's in Apple's best interest to keep you in their walled garden. You owning and controlling your own software keeps Apple from making money on you. You're much better off in the long run supporting vendors who make their money from hardware and don't lock you in.
- ludwigschubert 2y ago
  > far, far more money from services […] than from hardware. Q1 2024 Share of Apple's revenue by product category: Services: 19.33% Hardware: 80.67% (Hardware breakdown: iPhone: 58.29% Mac: 6.51% iPad: 5.87% Wearables, home, accessories: 10%) Though I’d love to know how that breaks down for actual profit, and likely they expect services revenue to grow more than hardware in the future? https://www.statista.com/statistics/382260/segments-share-revenue-of-apple/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/382260/segments-share-re...
  - sumuyuda 2y ago
    With the exception of the iPhone, the rest of the hardware is around 20%, same amount as the services.
  - transpute 2y ago
    > Services: 19.33% Hardware: 80.67% Candidate for future Apple CEO is the current head of hardware engineering, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40328699 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40328699
  - pjerem 2y ago
    While op was a little exaggerating with service revenues, his points still stand. The thing is Apple is not selling you a computer but an ecosystem. Their products are all meant to work together and this is only possible with their software. Running macOS as your daily driver makes buying an iPhone a very easy choice. It’s hundreds of little things like using your iPhone camera as a scanner from Finder on your Mac to scan a paper to the current folder, unified clipboard, using your Apple Watch to lock your screen when you leave your computer, having your AirPods automagically switch from iPhone to Mac when you start a video and instantly switch back to your phone and pause your video when you answer a call … and that’s only the tip of the iceberg. Apple software is made to make you buy other Apple hardware so running Linux is pretty much not interesting for them. I’m positively surprised it’s even possible. Services are only the cherry on the cake, you subscribe to them when you are already tied to the ecosystem because they became pretty obvious. And Apple is smart enough to not force them down your throat like Microsoft. So yeah, it’s really important for Apple to keep you on their software if they want to sell you more hardware.
  - fader 2y ago
    Yeah, I realized after I posted that I wasn't clear that I was referring to computer hardware. The iPhone dwarfs everything else that they sell.
atlas_hugged 2y ago
They did to a degree with changes to the bootloader. Hector Martin explained it but basically they did this for no other reason than to help the project along without also needing to invest very much development time on it.
sam_bristow 2y ago
I remember a discussion back when the first M1 chips came out where someone observed that it was quite likely that they had the Linux kernel running before they got XNU ported. The theory was that the hardware engineers would've probably used Linux during the hardware validation phase before the MacOS kernel team got their hands on it.
Aurornis 2y ago
> Really?! Is Slack — a glorified web browser — what people trying to run Linux on Apple hardware are looking for? Personally, I'm happy running Slack in Firefox. This kind of gatekeeping is one of many things that keeps me away from the desktop Linux community these days. Having Slack as a separate desktop app that I can launch quickly and alt-tab to separately is important to me. The standalone app is better at keyboard shortcuts and multiple workspaces, which is also important to me. If I can’t even use a common communication app, a distro is a non-starter for real work. It’s great that they’ve made so much progress, but every time someone tries to discuss the actual limitations it’s tiresome to hear people jump out and try to shame people for expecting common things to work.
- freedomben 2y ago
  The Linux community is huge and diverse. One person's opinion shouldn't keep you away from the community, anymore than having a comic-con attendant be rude in the grocery store should keep you from comic-con. Also I don't know how you get that GP is "gatekeeping" with their comment. I don't see anywhere they said you shouldn't be able to run Slack as an app, merely that they personally don't do it and they are very surprised that other people do. I also don't see where they have any power to limit you, should they even want to (which most Linux people don't want to limit anybody). Can you elaborate more on why you feel this is gatekeeping? I also use the Slack app (on Fedora). I much prefer it to a web browser because of the reasons you mentioned. Keyboard shortcuts, multiple workspaces, etc. It's also nice to just have it in it's own process so when it gets memory hungry I can kill it, and I don't have to deal with Slack tabs. The beauty of Linux is the diversity IMHO. GP isn't wrong, you're not wrong, I'm not wrong. Linux is about flexibility and power, and empowerment of the individual (especially the user). Here the user is always right, and I love that. It's where all hackers should live IMHO (but I'm not trying to force anybody to Linux, you do you :-D)
jwells89 2y ago
Mac users aren’t beholden to the App Store the way iOS users are. There’s some things people get from there but the bulk of useful third party Mac software is distributed outside the App Store.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  > the bulk of useful third party Mac software is distributed outside the App Store A mistake Apple made sure to not allow to happen again on their other platforms.
  - transpute 2y ago
    s/mistake/precedent/ Macs pre-date app stores.
    - cassianoleal 2y ago
      So do iPhones.
    - jwells89 2y ago
      Apple also sees Macs as being in their own category amongst their devices, which is why AS Macs had OS agnostic multi boot capabilities added despite being descended from iPads architecturally.
  - Ringz 2y ago
    Until the European Union becomes aware of this.

fader 2y ago

> I'd love to give them my money if I they would just stop pushing MacOS and force feeding their app store ecosystem. But that's opposed to Apple's revenue goals. They make far, far more money from services and their app ecosystem than from hardware. It's in Apple's best interest to keep you in their walled garden. You owning and controlling your own software keeps Apple from making money on you. You're much better off in the long run supporting vendors who make their money from hardware and don't lock you in.

ludwigschubert 2y ago
> far, far more money from services […] than from hardware. Q1 2024 Share of Apple's revenue by product category: Services: 19.33% Hardware: 80.67% (Hardware breakdown: iPhone: 58.29% Mac: 6.51% iPad: 5.87% Wearables, home, accessories: 10%) Though I’d love to know how that breaks down for actual profit, and likely they expect services revenue to grow more than hardware in the future? https://www.statista.com/statistics/382260/segments-share-revenue-of-apple/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/382260/segments-share-re...
- sumuyuda 2y ago
  With the exception of the iPhone, the rest of the hardware is around 20%, same amount as the services.
- transpute 2y ago
  > Services: 19.33% Hardware: 80.67% Candidate for future Apple CEO is the current head of hardware engineering, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40328699 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40328699
- pjerem 2y ago
  While op was a little exaggerating with service revenues, his points still stand. The thing is Apple is not selling you a computer but an ecosystem. Their products are all meant to work together and this is only possible with their software. Running macOS as your daily driver makes buying an iPhone a very easy choice. It’s hundreds of little things like using your iPhone camera as a scanner from Finder on your Mac to scan a paper to the current folder, unified clipboard, using your Apple Watch to lock your screen when you leave your computer, having your AirPods automagically switch from iPhone to Mac when you start a video and instantly switch back to your phone and pause your video when you answer a call … and that’s only the tip of the iceberg. Apple software is made to make you buy other Apple hardware so running Linux is pretty much not interesting for them. I’m positively surprised it’s even possible. Services are only the cherry on the cake, you subscribe to them when you are already tied to the ecosystem because they became pretty obvious. And Apple is smart enough to not force them down your throat like Microsoft. So yeah, it’s really important for Apple to keep you on their software if they want to sell you more hardware.
- fader 2y ago
  Yeah, I realized after I posted that I wasn't clear that I was referring to computer hardware. The iPhone dwarfs everything else that they sell.

atlas_hugged 2y ago

They did to a degree with changes to the bootloader. Hector Martin explained it but basically they did this for no other reason than to help the project along without also needing to invest very much development time on it.

sam_bristow 2y ago

I remember a discussion back when the first M1 chips came out where someone observed that it was quite likely that they had the Linux kernel running before they got XNU ported. The theory was that the hardware engineers would've probably used Linux during the hardware validation phase before the MacOS kernel team got their hands on it.

Aurornis 2y ago

> Really?! Is Slack — a glorified web browser — what people trying to run Linux on Apple hardware are looking for? Personally, I'm happy running Slack in Firefox. This kind of gatekeeping is one of many things that keeps me away from the desktop Linux community these days. Having Slack as a separate desktop app that I can launch quickly and alt-tab to separately is important to me. The standalone app is better at keyboard shortcuts and multiple workspaces, which is also important to me. If I can’t even use a common communication app, a distro is a non-starter for real work. It’s great that they’ve made so much progress, but every time someone tries to discuss the actual limitations it’s tiresome to hear people jump out and try to shame people for expecting common things to work.

freedomben 2y ago
The Linux community is huge and diverse. One person's opinion shouldn't keep you away from the community, anymore than having a comic-con attendant be rude in the grocery store should keep you from comic-con. Also I don't know how you get that GP is "gatekeeping" with their comment. I don't see anywhere they said you shouldn't be able to run Slack as an app, merely that they personally don't do it and they are very surprised that other people do. I also don't see where they have any power to limit you, should they even want to (which most Linux people don't want to limit anybody). Can you elaborate more on why you feel this is gatekeeping? I also use the Slack app (on Fedora). I much prefer it to a web browser because of the reasons you mentioned. Keyboard shortcuts, multiple workspaces, etc. It's also nice to just have it in it's own process so when it gets memory hungry I can kill it, and I don't have to deal with Slack tabs. The beauty of Linux is the diversity IMHO. GP isn't wrong, you're not wrong, I'm not wrong. Linux is about flexibility and power, and empowerment of the individual (especially the user). Here the user is always right, and I love that. It's where all hackers should live IMHO (but I'm not trying to force anybody to Linux, you do you :-D)

jwells89 2y ago

Mac users aren’t beholden to the App Store the way iOS users are. There’s some things people get from there but the bulk of useful third party Mac software is distributed outside the App Store.

Rinzler89 2y ago
> the bulk of useful third party Mac software is distributed outside the App Store A mistake Apple made sure to not allow to happen again on their other platforms.
- transpute 2y ago
  s/mistake/precedent/ Macs pre-date app stores.
  - cassianoleal 2y ago
    So do iPhones.
  - jwells89 2y ago
    Apple also sees Macs as being in their own category amongst their devices, which is why AS Macs had OS agnostic multi boot capabilities added despite being descended from iPads architecturally.
- Ringz 2y ago
  Until the European Union becomes aware of this.