3 ms·

I'm interested in creation of remote, horizontal game dev worker cooperative

Hi! As I wrote in the title I’m looking for people interested in such an endeavor. I already tried creating such a project but due to internal disagreements it didn’t pan out, still I am very interested in trying this out. Game dev is very susceptible to exploitation from capitalists which is very unfortunate given that means of production are essentially socialized already - we have FOSS software like Godot that is enough to create very elaborate projects and we can collaborate remotely so no land is needed either. This makes it I think a very fruitful direction to go, because costs of game dev are not very big and returns can be big if the game is successful. I know that there is a huge competition in game dev, but given that in worker cooperative nothing is siphoned by capitalists at the top I think it’s not impossible to get to the level of subsistence on game dev, while being able to affect the culture and promote cooperativism among the general population and among video game creators. I don’t have a specific game dev experience but I like solving complex problems and I am interested in doing a worker cooperative, I already did quite a bit of research during my previous attempt at this type of worker cooperative and I would for this coop to get inspiration from Igalia, Motion Twin and Sociocracy. At my last project people had issues that I am fine with anti-foundationalist philosophies so please consider that I like those and I like to discuss from those lenses. I am very good at self-directed learning and I could especially do stuff like coding, design, writing plot and characters, I could research some more legalistic side of cooperative but it would be nice certainly to have someone who has some expertise here. That still leave places for people interested in audio and graphics and I am very fine with redundancy in some aspects of the required “expertise”, still I am a big believer in learning by doing and getting feedback and improving based on this feedback so I am mostly looking for people willing to learn, explore and collaborate to hopefully create something cool. I would like to create games such as Planescape Torment, Disco Elysium, Hotline Miami, FTL: Faster Than Light, Spec Ops: The Line, Portal 2, Undertale, Getting Over It, The Talos Principle, Vampire the Masqurade: Bloodlines, KOTOR 2. If you are interested in this project please get in touch, we may correspond a bit and see if we would like to collaborate! I somewhat wonder about trying to release those games on FOSS licenses (still with asking for “paying” for them to support the creators), that would be “purer” from anarchist perspective than using proprietary license but this is not something I have thought about that much. The pro would be it being impossible to get the license stolen how almost happened to Disco Elysium creators.

opyate 2y ago
(thought explosion below from a person who doesn't know very much at all) Yes, I'm very keen on this idea. I mention worker collectives a few times in my blog as something I want to explore: https://juanuys.com/blog/2022/11/21/masters-retrospective.html https://juanuys.com/blog/2022/11/21/masters-retrospective.ht... https://juanuys.com/blog/2023/03/07/thoughts-on-ai-and-games.html https://juanuys.com/blog/2023/03/07/thoughts-on-ai-and-games... https://juanuys.com/blog/2021/07/23/week-9-industry-insight-1.html https://juanuys.com/blog/2021/07/23/week-9-industry-insight-... https://juanuys.com/blog/2021/08/03/week-10-more-industry-insights.html https://juanuys.com/blog/2021/08/03/week-10-more-industry-in... I know a few people involved in co-ops, so I have an opportunity to ask them more about the nitty gritty of running one: - a network I'm a part of (EE): https://www.equalexperts.com/blog/whats-new/employeebuyout-equalexperts-announcement/ https://www.equalexperts.com/blog/whats-new/employeebuyout-e... - I know some folks who work at Outlandish: https://outlandish.com https://outlandish.com In fact, I have links to some of the Outlandish documentation: - member benefits: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wd0zv-xCh7lM3ttu3eiNaVYO9PdyKMPbpfqSrJarbq4/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wd0zv-xCh7lM3ttu3eiNaVYO... - regular contributor benefits: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1j4jPla6PUOijlGX0RN6f01Y0wd4aCkCbDgwaDU41eBU/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1j4jPla6PUOijlGX0RN6f01Y0... - competency framework: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kwmU2i3UuqHIyvVie8hX_5VrIvb6hZYSBv-Dl3E1sJk/edit https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kwmU2i3UuqHIyvVie8hX... > I somewhat wonder about trying to release those games on FOSS licenses (still with asking for “paying” for them to support the creators), that would be “purer” from anarchist perspective than using proprietary license but this is not something I have thought about that much. The pro would be it being impossible to get the license stolen how almost happened to Disco Elysium creators. This is absolutely the model I want to follow. Pros: - More people will try your game if it's free. Especially useful if a studio isn't known yet - You can slap on a GPL3 license to force derivatives to also be FOSS Cons: - someone can easily take your FOSS game, build it, and sell it. Some might even go through the trouble of rebranding your game ever so slightly before re-selling it (even if you had the GPL3 license on there, but who cares, right? Lawyers are expensive, etc) - There might be a bit of a stigma attached to free games, as something which might not really be worth your time, or perhaps comes with trackers/ads/malware/etc so I'm really sure if folks would pay much attention. Personal experience: even if I get an itch.io alert that someone I followed released a new free game, I rarely even have a look (and TBH, a lot of thumbnails + descriptions are quite boring, and looks like more of the same I see everywhere) - if you follow the sales funnel (I use dummy numbers as an example): number of people who see/discover your game (10,000) -> number of people who claim it or add it to their account (1,000) -> number of people who install it (100) -> number of people who actually run the game (10) -> number of people who actually play it for a significant amount of time (1) -> the number of people who think it's worth something and actually saw the call-to-action that says "if you like this game, please support us by donating or buying our premium DLC or X" -> now we're getting into the vanishingly small numbers. Even if your call-to-action was super clear and can't be missed, no real significant number of people will actually send money your way. > Game dev is very susceptible to exploitation from capitalists OMG, the layoffs are heart-breaking. And the recent spate of Bethesda studio closures by M$, considering that these studios actually made successful games, is just disgusting. (mad rant: From the "7 deadly sins", (capitalist) greed is definitely deadly. It's causing people stress, bad health, lack of funds to pay for doctors, etc. Maybe not so deadly for those at the top, but then I guess swimming in a sea of fire and brimstone forever more while Papa Satan sings his sweet tunes (apparently he was the leader of music in heaven before his fall, haha) is worse than death.) > I already tried creating such a project but due to internal disagreements it didn’t pan out I think the reason that something like sokpop works so well for now is because those 4 guys are roughly (exactly?) the same age and culture, and have roughly the same life goals and immediate needs, so it's like taking yourself and multiplying by four. In the real world, some people have kids (might not be always available), some people are 10 years from retirement (maybe want to be more conservative with their income), some people only want to do it in their spare time (won't be in the "office" the same time as you), some people's productivity are measured differently (is a 3 minute song the same as a new level in a 2-bit single-screen platformer?), etc. It's just very difficult to get alignment on an entire founding team in a co-op. Perhaps it takes a certain kind of individual to function in a co-op. Anyway, dude, this is a good idea. More people should pursue co-ops. There's definitely place for a kinder alternative to capitalism as we currently know it. I haven't really dug into the nitty gritty in-depth, but a lot of folks are doing it, so the resources are out there to learn more. Feel free to reach out. Contact deets on my website. Disclaimer (apart from being a ranting mad man who doesn't know much): I'm currently just a gamedev hobbyist, and don't have any big dreams of being successful (for whatever definition of successful), but I am having fun when I do spend my few minutes a week making games, and I'm not beating myself up when something doesn't get finished. (I think this was the nail in the coffin for me w.r.t "gamedev as a career": https://www.mimimi.games/our-final-game/ https://www.mimimi.games/our-final-game/ I mean, if THEY can't survive, who am I to survive, lol)

opyate 2y ago

(thought explosion below from a person who doesn't know very much at all) Yes, I'm very keen on this idea. I mention worker collectives a few times in my blog as something I want to explore: https://juanuys.com/blog/2022/11/21/masters-retrospective.html https://juanuys.com/blog/2022/11/21/masters-retrospective.ht... https://juanuys.com/blog/2023/03/07/thoughts-on-ai-and-games.html https://juanuys.com/blog/2023/03/07/thoughts-on-ai-and-games... https://juanuys.com/blog/2021/07/23/week-9-industry-insight-1.html https://juanuys.com/blog/2021/07/23/week-9-industry-insight-... https://juanuys.com/blog/2021/08/03/week-10-more-industry-insights.html https://juanuys.com/blog/2021/08/03/week-10-more-industry-in... I know a few people involved in co-ops, so I have an opportunity to ask them more about the nitty gritty of running one: - a network I'm a part of (EE): https://www.equalexperts.com/blog/whats-new/employeebuyout-equalexperts-announcement/ https://www.equalexperts.com/blog/whats-new/employeebuyout-e... - I know some folks who work at Outlandish: https://outlandish.com https://outlandish.com In fact, I have links to some of the Outlandish documentation: - member benefits: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wd0zv-xCh7lM3ttu3eiNaVYO9PdyKMPbpfqSrJarbq4/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wd0zv-xCh7lM3ttu3eiNaVYO... - regular contributor benefits: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1j4jPla6PUOijlGX0RN6f01Y0wd4aCkCbDgwaDU41eBU/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1j4jPla6PUOijlGX0RN6f01Y0... - competency framework: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kwmU2i3UuqHIyvVie8hX_5VrIvb6hZYSBv-Dl3E1sJk/edit https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kwmU2i3UuqHIyvVie8hX... > I somewhat wonder about trying to release those games on FOSS licenses (still with asking for “paying” for them to support the creators), that would be “purer” from anarchist perspective than using proprietary license but this is not something I have thought about that much. The pro would be it being impossible to get the license stolen how almost happened to Disco Elysium creators. This is absolutely the model I want to follow. Pros: - More people will try your game if it's free. Especially useful if a studio isn't known yet - You can slap on a GPL3 license to force derivatives to also be FOSS Cons: - someone can easily take your FOSS game, build it, and sell it. Some might even go through the trouble of rebranding your game ever so slightly before re-selling it (even if you had the GPL3 license on there, but who cares, right? Lawyers are expensive, etc) - There might be a bit of a stigma attached to free games, as something which might not really be worth your time, or perhaps comes with trackers/ads/malware/etc so I'm really sure if folks would pay much attention. Personal experience: even if I get an itch.io alert that someone I followed released a new free game, I rarely even have a look (and TBH, a lot of thumbnails + descriptions are quite boring, and looks like more of the same I see everywhere) - if you follow the sales funnel (I use dummy numbers as an example): number of people who see/discover your game (10,000) -> number of people who claim it or add it to their account (1,000) -> number of people who install it (100) -> number of people who actually run the game (10) -> number of people who actually play it for a significant amount of time (1) -> the number of people who think it's worth something and actually saw the call-to-action that says "if you like this game, please support us by donating or buying our premium DLC or X" -> now we're getting into the vanishingly small numbers. Even if your call-to-action was super clear and can't be missed, no real significant number of people will actually send money your way. > Game dev is very susceptible to exploitation from capitalists OMG, the layoffs are heart-breaking. And the recent spate of Bethesda studio closures by M$, considering that these studios actually made successful games, is just disgusting. (mad rant: From the "7 deadly sins", (capitalist) greed is definitely deadly. It's causing people stress, bad health, lack of funds to pay for doctors, etc. Maybe not so deadly for those at the top, but then I guess swimming in a sea of fire and brimstone forever more while Papa Satan sings his sweet tunes (apparently he was the leader of music in heaven before his fall, haha) is worse than death.) > I already tried creating such a project but due to internal disagreements it didn’t pan out I think the reason that something like sokpop works so well for now is because those 4 guys are roughly (exactly?) the same age and culture, and have roughly the same life goals and immediate needs, so it's like taking yourself and multiplying by four. In the real world, some people have kids (might not be always available), some people are 10 years from retirement (maybe want to be more conservative with their income), some people only want to do it in their spare time (won't be in the "office" the same time as you), some people's productivity are measured differently (is a 3 minute song the same as a new level in a 2-bit single-screen platformer?), etc. It's just very difficult to get alignment on an entire founding team in a co-op. Perhaps it takes a certain kind of individual to function in a co-op. Anyway, dude, this is a good idea. More people should pursue co-ops. There's definitely place for a kinder alternative to capitalism as we currently know it. I haven't really dug into the nitty gritty in-depth, but a lot of folks are doing it, so the resources are out there to learn more. Feel free to reach out. Contact deets on my website. Disclaimer (apart from being a ranting mad man who doesn't know much): I'm currently just a gamedev hobbyist, and don't have any big dreams of being successful (for whatever definition of successful), but I am having fun when I do spend my few minutes a week making games, and I'm not beating myself up when something doesn't get finished. (I think this was the nail in the coffin for me w.r.t "gamedev as a career": https://www.mimimi.games/our-final-game/ https://www.mimimi.games/our-final-game/ I mean, if THEY can't survive, who am I to survive, lol)