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My rate in California is now 41 cents per kwh. My friends in Idaho are paying 10 cents. When (if) gasoline drops below $4.50-4.75 a gallon, it'll make more sens

My rate in California is now 41 cents per kwh. My friends in Idaho are paying 10 cents. When (if) gasoline drops below $4.50-4.75 a gallon, it'll make more sense to just run my Chevy Volt on gasoline than electricity. Californian's like to complain we pay 50-100% more than gasoline than the rest of the country, but it I think if more people knew they'd be really annoyed they pay 4x more for electricity.

Spivak 2y ago
Y'all pay 41¢?! That's insane, the highest priced energy provider where I'm at is 7¢. Does your electricity come with foot massages? If you take the default electric provider you pay 5¢, and 5.5¢ if you want 100% renewables.
- throwup238 2y ago
  $0.41/kWh is a good price. I pay at least $0.50/kWh and I have family in the exurbs paying as much as $0.91/kWh in San Diego county. That doesn't include the fixed hook up costs that are constantly going up. We have plans that charge a lot less over night ($0.10-0.20/kWh) to charge EVs though.
  - Spivak 2y ago
    Genuinely, I'm so sorry. I can't even imagine my electric bill being 5x let alone 15x. Do y'all just have to conserve like crazy or is your electric bill like a $1000+/mo and that's just normal.
    - throwup238 2y ago
      The extreme rise in prices is relatively recent, mostly due to the court decision post the Camp fire that said the power companies are liable for the fires. Through the 2010s power was around $0.15-0.30/kWh iirc but after the decision the power companies had to replace all their aging infrastructure all at once and pass the cost on to consumers. The rise coincided with the large drop in solar and battery prices, so most people just have solar now. Before installing solar and batteries my family in the exurbs did conserve very well and paid under $100/mo. I don't conserve very well and pay $125-200/mo. Worst bill I've ever had a few years ago was $700 but I was running indoor grow lights and had doors open for animals while running AC during a heatwave (it was ridiculously dumb and the cost is why I don't do it anymore).
  - nothercastle 2y ago
    Is it cheaper to run a gas generator at some point?
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - gregschlom 2y ago
      Actually yes, I did the math a few months ago and if you have a gas generator such as [1], you can produce electricity from PG&E's gas for cheaper than PG&E's own electrical rates. Details: The generator linked below can produce 17 kWh of electricity by burning 307 cubic feet of natural gas. That translates to 3.07 therms of gas, and looking at my bill PG&E charges around $2.3 / therm, so the generator would produce electricity at a marginal cost of $0.41/kWh, cheaper than what I pay. Of course this ignores maintenance costs and the upfront cost of the generator itself ($6,000), not to mention environmental costs. [1] https://www.generac.com/generaccorporate/media/library/content/all-products/generators/home-generators/guardian-series/20kva/generac-guardian-75c2ea99594107929e5ef958b3e021df-(3).pdf https://www.generac.com/generaccorporate/media/library/conte...
      - more_corn 2y ago
        I hate to be that guy, but instead of running a generator why not deploy rooftop solar? If we’re already ignoring upfront costs it generates your electricity for zero dollars.
        readthenotes1 2y ago
        And then buy the generator for nights. Last I checked, batteries were prohibitively expensive.
        rickydroll 2y ago
        You can get 30 kW (EG4-LifePower4) for $9000. Depending on your handyman skills, you can assemble most of the system yourself and have an electrician check it over, tie it into your electrical service, and sign off on the project. If I were doing solar and batteries today, I would not try to feed any power to the grid except as part of a virtual power plant that pays me peak rates.
- dilyevsky 2y ago
  That's bay area price. Non-peak. Peak prices are 60c+ for TUI or if you're over the baseline.
- beached_whale 2y ago
  I do wonder if everyone is using the same rate structures when they compare, things like fixed fees for consumption/delivery, delivery charges, and actual usage.
  - bryanlarsen 2y ago
    Yes, about a third of my electricity costs are fixed fees. Did California actually have no fixed fees before? Those fixed fees make my effective rate much higher than the posted rates.
  - talldatethrow 2y ago
    If I included the base fees and all that, it would be higher. The 41 cents is the fee for energy alone. So yes even if I just used 100kwh being out of town or something, my bill would be even higher than $41.
mb389 2y ago
i pay roughly the same in NYC
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Spivak 2y ago

Y'all pay 41¢?! That's insane, the highest priced energy provider where I'm at is 7¢. Does your electricity come with foot massages? If you take the default electric provider you pay 5¢, and 5.5¢ if you want 100% renewables.

throwup238 2y ago
$0.41/kWh is a good price. I pay at least $0.50/kWh and I have family in the exurbs paying as much as $0.91/kWh in San Diego county. That doesn't include the fixed hook up costs that are constantly going up. We have plans that charge a lot less over night ($0.10-0.20/kWh) to charge EVs though.
- Spivak 2y ago
  Genuinely, I'm so sorry. I can't even imagine my electric bill being 5x let alone 15x. Do y'all just have to conserve like crazy or is your electric bill like a $1000+/mo and that's just normal.
  - throwup238 2y ago
    The extreme rise in prices is relatively recent, mostly due to the court decision post the Camp fire that said the power companies are liable for the fires. Through the 2010s power was around $0.15-0.30/kWh iirc but after the decision the power companies had to replace all their aging infrastructure all at once and pass the cost on to consumers. The rise coincided with the large drop in solar and battery prices, so most people just have solar now. Before installing solar and batteries my family in the exurbs did conserve very well and paid under $100/mo. I don't conserve very well and pay $125-200/mo. Worst bill I've ever had a few years ago was $700 but I was running indoor grow lights and had doors open for animals while running AC during a heatwave (it was ridiculously dumb and the cost is why I don't do it anymore).
- nothercastle 2y ago
  Is it cheaper to run a gas generator at some point?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - gregschlom 2y ago
    Actually yes, I did the math a few months ago and if you have a gas generator such as [1], you can produce electricity from PG&E's gas for cheaper than PG&E's own electrical rates. Details: The generator linked below can produce 17 kWh of electricity by burning 307 cubic feet of natural gas. That translates to 3.07 therms of gas, and looking at my bill PG&E charges around $2.3 / therm, so the generator would produce electricity at a marginal cost of $0.41/kWh, cheaper than what I pay. Of course this ignores maintenance costs and the upfront cost of the generator itself ($6,000), not to mention environmental costs. [1] https://www.generac.com/generaccorporate/media/library/content/all-products/generators/home-generators/guardian-series/20kva/generac-guardian-75c2ea99594107929e5ef958b3e021df-(3).pdf https://www.generac.com/generaccorporate/media/library/conte...
    - more_corn 2y ago
      I hate to be that guy, but instead of running a generator why not deploy rooftop solar? If we’re already ignoring upfront costs it generates your electricity for zero dollars.
      - readthenotes1 2y ago
        And then buy the generator for nights. Last I checked, batteries were prohibitively expensive.
        rickydroll 2y ago
        You can get 30 kW (EG4-LifePower4) for $9000. Depending on your handyman skills, you can assemble most of the system yourself and have an electrician check it over, tie it into your electrical service, and sign off on the project. If I were doing solar and batteries today, I would not try to feed any power to the grid except as part of a virtual power plant that pays me peak rates.
dilyevsky 2y ago
That's bay area price. Non-peak. Peak prices are 60c+ for TUI or if you're over the baseline.
beached_whale 2y ago
I do wonder if everyone is using the same rate structures when they compare, things like fixed fees for consumption/delivery, delivery charges, and actual usage.
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  Yes, about a third of my electricity costs are fixed fees. Did California actually have no fixed fees before? Those fixed fees make my effective rate much higher than the posted rates.
- talldatethrow 2y ago
  If I included the base fees and all that, it would be higher. The 41 cents is the fee for energy alone. So yes even if I just used 100kwh being out of town or something, my bill would be even higher than $41.

mb389 2y ago

i pay roughly the same in NYC

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]