4 ms·

Cars are bad for urban environments, independent of their impact on CO2/energy production--they result in traffic, too-wide streets, pedestrian danger, and gene

Cars are bad for urban environments, independent of their impact on CO2/energy production--they result in traffic, too-wide streets, pedestrian danger, and generally less pleasant cities.

atonse 2y ago
The pedestrian danger is a valid one and will be for a while (until more self driving cars come out, probably?) But in what way do they make for less pleasant cities? Wouldn't moving to electric vehicles all but get rid of noise pollution from cars?
- 0x5f3759df-i 2y ago
  Above 20ish mph most of the noise from cars come from their tires not from the engine.
- mint2 2y ago
  If you ever visit SF, make sure to walk across the Golden Gate Bridge. It’s scenic as all hell, but also gratingly loud and unpleasant from the road noise (note the term is road noise not engine noise) Running next to >30mph street is a mentally taxing experience. Running on a road or trail without traffic is amazing and one realizes a mental burden is removed by eliminating the noise and extra attention required for safety.
- yowzadave 2y ago
  Try visiting one of the European city centers that has disallowed cars—it is a remarkable experience for a variety of reasons: 1. The quiet—you can call to somebody on the other side of the street and they will hear you! 2. Visibility—walking down a street with no street parking is a completely different experience, you can see all of the storefronts, all of the pedestrians, etc. 3. Mobility—you feel total freedom as a pedestrian; cross the street wherever you want, no need to worry that you'll get plowed over by a car.
  - atonse 2y ago
    But for the city centers that have disallowed cars, sure, as a pedestrian that's nice. But how about for restaurants needing supplies and others needing a vehicle to get in there? I actually like the idea of superblocks like they have in Barcelona. They were wonderful. They seem like a highly pragmatic solution where you can have a mix of pedestrian friendly zones and still allow for vehicles (and in some cities, in the pedestrian friendly zones, only EV delivery vehicles are allowed). This kind of stuff to me seems more pragmatic than the general sentiment that cars are bad.
    - Timon3 2y ago
      City centres that disallow cars do have restaurants. No need for hypotheticals - you can just look at how they are already solving these problems. A common approach, for example, is to allow deliveries up to a certain time, e.g. 11AM.

Cars are bad for urban environments, independent of their impact on CO2/energy production--they result in traffic, too-wide streets, pedestrian danger, and generally less pleasant cities.

atonse 2y ago

The pedestrian danger is a valid one and will be for a while (until more self driving cars come out, probably?) But in what way do they make for less pleasant cities? Wouldn't moving to electric vehicles all but get rid of noise pollution from cars?

0x5f3759df-i 2y ago
Above 20ish mph most of the noise from cars come from their tires not from the engine.
mint2 2y ago
If you ever visit SF, make sure to walk across the Golden Gate Bridge. It’s scenic as all hell, but also gratingly loud and unpleasant from the road noise (note the term is road noise not engine noise) Running next to >30mph street is a mentally taxing experience. Running on a road or trail without traffic is amazing and one realizes a mental burden is removed by eliminating the noise and extra attention required for safety.
yowzadave 2y ago
Try visiting one of the European city centers that has disallowed cars—it is a remarkable experience for a variety of reasons: 1. The quiet—you can call to somebody on the other side of the street and they will hear you! 2. Visibility—walking down a street with no street parking is a completely different experience, you can see all of the storefronts, all of the pedestrians, etc. 3. Mobility—you feel total freedom as a pedestrian; cross the street wherever you want, no need to worry that you'll get plowed over by a car.
- atonse 2y ago
  But for the city centers that have disallowed cars, sure, as a pedestrian that's nice. But how about for restaurants needing supplies and others needing a vehicle to get in there? I actually like the idea of superblocks like they have in Barcelona. They were wonderful. They seem like a highly pragmatic solution where you can have a mix of pedestrian friendly zones and still allow for vehicles (and in some cities, in the pedestrian friendly zones, only EV delivery vehicles are allowed). This kind of stuff to me seems more pragmatic than the general sentiment that cars are bad.
  - Timon3 2y ago
    City centres that disallow cars do have restaurants. No need for hypotheticals - you can just look at how they are already solving these problems. A common approach, for example, is to allow deliveries up to a certain time, e.g. 11AM.