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Both can be true, if growing up with more money is a causal factor in having "better" habits (in terms of wealth generation/retention). I also agree that many r

by feoren 2y ago

Both can be true, if growing up with more money is a causal factor in having "better" habits (in terms of wealth generation/retention). I also agree that many rich people could not survive poverty. Both are adapted to their situations. The problem is that this makes it harder to bring people out of poverty, because you're trying to pull them into a situation they're less adapted for. I actually am in favor of simply giving the poor (/everyone) money (e.g. basic income), but even I acknowledge that poverty-formed habits are going to be a barrier in that strategy's effectiveness. We're not trying to pull rich people into poverty, so the fact that they wouldn't fare well there is moot.

s1artibartfast 2y ago
What would cause them to not survive poverty? would they all commit suicide or spontaneously combust? Avoiding death is a pretty strong force for adaptation to new circumstances.
- feoren 2y ago
  Alcoholism, drug addiction, dying on the street on a cold night, lack of proper healthcare, and yes, suicide. I didn't think it'd be controversial to suggest that poverty can kill. And you're taking a strict definition of "survive" -- plenty of people talk about "not being able to survive" some situation if they think it would be extremely difficult and take a permanent toll on them, even if they might not literally die. Honestly it's a completely moot point anyway, as I said: nobody is trying to pull rich people into poverty, so it doesn't matter how they'd fare.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    I just think it odd that you predict their "survival" rate will be lower than those born poor. I think it goes without saying that it would be a rough transition if you swapped two people. I expect the long term outcome would be better for a rich person swapped into poverty, than if the poor person who stayed. I think this because they statistically and experientially I think they have more of the skills necessary to escape poverty: education, trades, social coding, ect. You see this often with immigrants to the US, and is especially pronounced in the works of Raj Chetty and Ran Abramitzky. When you take someone successful in one country and have them start over poor in another. The immigrants do better over the course of their lives, and the children of poor immigrants do FAR better than the children of native born poor. https://www.amazon.com/Streets-Gold-Americas-Immigrant-Success/dp/1541797833?crid=1ZUPKSFGMNQNM&keywords=streets+of+gold&qid=1656439979&sprefix=streets+of+gol%2Caps%2C207&sr=8-1&linkCode=ll1&tag=lfdigital-20&linkId=232bde10a8ae30f3f5d03828436262e9&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl/ https://www.amazon.com/Streets-Gold-Americas-Immigrant-Succe...

by feoren 2y ago

s1artibartfast 2y ago

What would cause them to not survive poverty? would they all commit suicide or spontaneously combust? Avoiding death is a pretty strong force for adaptation to new circumstances.

feoren 2y ago
Alcoholism, drug addiction, dying on the street on a cold night, lack of proper healthcare, and yes, suicide. I didn't think it'd be controversial to suggest that poverty can kill. And you're taking a strict definition of "survive" -- plenty of people talk about "not being able to survive" some situation if they think it would be extremely difficult and take a permanent toll on them, even if they might not literally die. Honestly it's a completely moot point anyway, as I said: nobody is trying to pull rich people into poverty, so it doesn't matter how they'd fare.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  I just think it odd that you predict their "survival" rate will be lower than those born poor. I think it goes without saying that it would be a rough transition if you swapped two people. I expect the long term outcome would be better for a rich person swapped into poverty, than if the poor person who stayed. I think this because they statistically and experientially I think they have more of the skills necessary to escape poverty: education, trades, social coding, ect. You see this often with immigrants to the US, and is especially pronounced in the works of Raj Chetty and Ran Abramitzky. When you take someone successful in one country and have them start over poor in another. The immigrants do better over the course of their lives, and the children of poor immigrants do FAR better than the children of native born poor. https://www.amazon.com/Streets-Gold-Americas-Immigrant-Success/dp/1541797833?crid=1ZUPKSFGMNQNM&keywords=streets+of+gold&qid=1656439979&sprefix=streets+of+gol%2Caps%2C207&sr=8-1&linkCode=ll1&tag=lfdigital-20&linkId=232bde10a8ae30f3f5d03828436262e9&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl/ https://www.amazon.com/Streets-Gold-Americas-Immigrant-Succe...