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> This makes sense to anyone who has been a parent trying to raise children in an apartment. It feels awful as a parent when your noisy children are bothering t

> This makes sense to anyone who has been a parent trying to raise children in an apartment. It feels awful as a parent when your noisy children are bothering the neighbors through the walls at all hours. It is difficult to entertain young kids all day when there is no yard for them to play in. It is nerve racking knowing the ever-present danger of a high balcony for little ones. This feels like a lot of assumptions. I'm not convinced that every parent would classify apartment living as awful, and many seem happy to trade the quiet backyard for the bustling city below. That said, this stands out to me > your noisy children are bothering the neighbors through the walls at all hours Among other causes, I think in the US there's been a growing negative attitude towards young children - they're seen as nuisances to be endured. A friend of mine is a military wife with 4 children. She said in Italy the difference was striking - she'd get on a bus or train with the kids and everyone smiled cheerfully, happy to see young family out and about. In the US everyone grimaced and avoided eye contact, probably hoping the kids sat far away. The root cause is doubtless debatable - are Italians better at raising obedient kids or are Italians more tolerant towards normal kid behavior? Reddit is my usual source of the attitudes of young people and I see "I can't afford kids" much less often than I see "Kids are awful and why would anyone want them?" The other strong factor appears to be for all the trending 'trad wife' cosplay going on, a lot of women don't want to be full time wives and moms. Men often have rosy memories of growing up with someone taking care of them, women often have mixed memories of a mom who had few intellectually challenging tasks, no time of, and very little respect from society in general.

TeMPOraL 2y ago
Also: >> your noisy children are bothering the neighbors through the walls at all hours Paper-thin walls are a construction issue. I've been living in apartments in cities my whole life, and now I'm raising my kids in a large city. There are several families with small kids in the same building. Noise is rarely a problem, because walls between apartments are thick and sound-insulating.
- fragmede 2y ago
  Paper thin walls are more than a construction issue, they are substandard living conditions and the buildings should be condemned and the construction company that built them should be fined and forced to build better housing.
EPWN3D 2y ago
I think you nailed it. Europe is, in general, just a lot more family-friendly. Italy in particular is very enthusiastic about children, probably due to a combination of culture and their declining population. But generally speaking, my wife and I never felt out of place bringing our then-three-year-old son around to wineries or restaurants. I suspect most of this is cultural and not due to Italian child-rearing resulting in better-behaved children or something like that. European governments are generally much more supportive to new parents. In France, my sister got a nanny subsidized by the government for the first couple of years, for example. Here in the Bay Area, my wife and I had to pay through the nose for a full-time nanny. We not only paid her a good rate, but we paid her above board, Nanny Tax and everything. And guess how much of that is tax-deductible? Absolutely none of it. And because we're in a high CoL area, we obviously didn't qualify for the expanded child tax credit. Our one child has cost an astonishing amount of money -- my wife has been agitating for another, and I'm just not sure we can afford it without decimating our savings. Kids are demanding enough, but when the government basically tells you you're on your own after they're born, society orients itself around that. To anyone who doesn't have kids, they just think, "Well that's your problem", because that's basically the stated position of American society.

TeMPOraL 2y ago

Also: >> your noisy children are bothering the neighbors through the walls at all hours Paper-thin walls are a construction issue. I've been living in apartments in cities my whole life, and now I'm raising my kids in a large city. There are several families with small kids in the same building. Noise is rarely a problem, because walls between apartments are thick and sound-insulating.

fragmede 2y ago
Paper thin walls are more than a construction issue, they are substandard living conditions and the buildings should be condemned and the construction company that built them should be fined and forced to build better housing.

EPWN3D 2y ago

I think you nailed it. Europe is, in general, just a lot more family-friendly. Italy in particular is very enthusiastic about children, probably due to a combination of culture and their declining population. But generally speaking, my wife and I never felt out of place bringing our then-three-year-old son around to wineries or restaurants. I suspect most of this is cultural and not due to Italian child-rearing resulting in better-behaved children or something like that. European governments are generally much more supportive to new parents. In France, my sister got a nanny subsidized by the government for the first couple of years, for example. Here in the Bay Area, my wife and I had to pay through the nose for a full-time nanny. We not only paid her a good rate, but we paid her above board, Nanny Tax and everything. And guess how much of that is tax-deductible? Absolutely none of it. And because we're in a high CoL area, we obviously didn't qualify for the expanded child tax credit. Our one child has cost an astonishing amount of money -- my wife has been agitating for another, and I'm just not sure we can afford it without decimating our savings. Kids are demanding enough, but when the government basically tells you you're on your own after they're born, society orients itself around that. To anyone who doesn't have kids, they just think, "Well that's your problem", because that's basically the stated position of American society.