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Does this paywalled article even contain a definition of "processed" in this context? I've never understood what that word means in the context of food. I have

Does this paywalled article even contain a definition of "processed" in this context? I've never understood what that word means in the context of food. I have something in my kitchen called a "food processor". It spins around and chops things with a blade. Is the product of a "food processor" not "processed food"? The closest I can figure to the media definition is that it is food that contains a lot of salt. Perhaps also preservatives. So are we really talking about the health effects of salt and preservatives?

_dark_matter_ 2y ago
Here's a gift link (and yes, it describes them in depth!): https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/06/well/eat/ultraprocessed-foods-harmful-health.html?unlocked_article_code=1.qk0.mXZe.XU5dW4Bwo0mT&smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/06/well/eat/ultraprocessed-f...
ronnier 2y ago
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/high-levels-of-ultra-processed-foods-linked-with-early-death-brain-issues/ar-BB1m3SK5 https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/high-levels-of-ultra-... > Ultra-processed foods encompass a broad category ranging from cookies, doughnuts and potato chips to hot dogs, white bread and frozen meals.
- jcutrell 2y ago
  I take umbrage with "frozen meals." Very often a frozen meal has straight up whole vegetables or pieces of meat. Freezing is one of the best ways to retain nutrition of vegetables etc as well. Totally different than white bread or hot dogs.
  - Ferret7446 2y ago
    Your umbrage is misguided. Processing does not mean it lowers nutrition. In fact, processing can increase nutrition.
ufo 2y ago
It refers to the NOVA classification of foods, developed from research at the University of São Paulo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification The tl;dr of ultraprocessed is that it's those exclusively industrial foods prepared with ingredients you wouldn't stock in your pantry (high fructose corn syrup, artificial flavors, protein isolate, etc) In part, these foods are bad because they are high in sygar and salt. But that's not the point of the classification, which intentionally takes a step back from the old approach based of mesuring the individul ingredients and macronutrients. The central thesis is that, for public health policy it's easier to frame it as a discussion of traditional food vs industrial junk, and how ultraprocessed foods are replacing traditional foods. The classification doesn't want to get lost in the details of ingredients, which the industry has always been adept at gaming anyway (fat is the boogeyman -> replace it with sugar, add vitamins to make it sound healthier, etc)
- dolni 2y ago
  > for public health policy it's easier Your entire explanation seems to rest critically on this point. After COVID, I cannot support what's "easier" for public health policy. Do the work. "Easier" got us "N95s don't protect against COVID" and then it was "oh wait, actually cloth masks do!" A lot of this stuff relies on trust. I won't sit here and try to pretend that you will find health eating Doritos or McDonald's Big Macs. But is something like a low-sugar protein bar a decent option? How about Soylent? These are the nuanced questions that are actually useful to answer. Nobody actually thinks "ultra processed foods" are good for you to begin with.
  - ufo 2y ago
    Why shouldn't the burden of proof be on the people making these meal replacements? The NOVA system is more interested in the wider effect of ultraprocessed foods replacing existing eating and cooking habits. The Brazilian dietary guidelines that were inspired by NOVA places a lot of importance in the social aspects of procuring food, preparing it, and eating it. In a sense, it's the antithesis of products such as Soylent.
taylorius 2y ago
One definition of ultraprocessed that I heard was the sort of food that needs specialised industrial processes and / or ingredients to create - something you couldn't really prepare in your kitchen.
- skirmish 2y ago
  So, any cheese or wine would be ultraprocessed according to that definition?
  - adwi 2y ago
    No snark, just a great life tip: - put unpasteurized milk in a saucepan - bring it to slow simmer (~180F) - add a splash of an acid (lemon, white vinegar, etc) and remove from heat - skim and collect the curd that forms on top. This is fresh ricotta and it will make you very happy.
  - ufo 2y ago
    Cheese & wine count as processed, but not as ultraprocessed. Kraft singles and other highly processed "cheese" are ultraprocessed. The main rule of thumb is to look at how long the ingredient list is.
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  Very fine white flour is pretty easy to make in your kitchen with the right tools and is an ultra-processed food. Coarse ground brown flour is processed, but not ultra-processed.
  - ufo 2y ago
    White flour is a processed ingredient, not ultra-processed.
    - bryanlarsen 2y ago
      That depends on which definition of ultra-processed you use. It's a product highly engineered for palatability. It's also surprisingly modern -- traditional flours are far more coarsely ground.
firebot 2y ago
There's the NOVA classifications. I'd say the major concerns are refinement, like white bread, white sugar, white rice, most oils are highly chemically processed besides "cold-pressed". On the flip side, foods should ideally be identifiable(look natural), and ideally, according to numerous studies, like on blue zones, where people tend to prioritize fresh fruits and vegetables, prepared 'simply'. The ideal amount of fruits and veggies tends to be around 9-12 servings, daily.
ilamont 2y ago
It does, and further provides an easy way to remember it: Food that you can't easily make in your kitchen with standard equipment and ingredients.
- fyt2024 2y ago
  I guess it depends https://m.youtube.com/@ZDFbesseresser https://m.youtube.com/@ZDFbesseresser Best cocking show ever. German but still watchable. You will realize that you must be nuts to eat processed food
- Ferret7446 2y ago
  Define "standard equipment and ingredients". Many "standard ingredients" are already (ultra-)processed.
incomingpain 2y ago
>Does this paywalled article even contain a definition of "processed" in this context? Or worse the ultraprocessed level. I dont think the article adequately defines either, but one can see what they are attempting to explain. >I've never understood what that word means in the context of food. I have something in my kitchen called a "food processor". It spins around and chops things with a blade. Is the product of a "food processor" not "processed food"? I think the author is not talking about food processors or doing procedures on food exactly. But rather suggesting the problem is industrialized food. "Soy protein isolate" is not something you're making in your kitchen. Or various other chemistry lab foods are allegedly a problem. >The closest I can figure to the media definition is that it is food that contains a lot of salt. Perhaps also preservatives. So are we really talking about the health effects of salt and preservatives? Preservatives do come into it. But it seems to me the diet folks are really struggling to figure out the correct diet.
- camel-cdr 2y ago
  > "Soy protein isolate" is not something you're making in your kitchen Is the idea that there is cemical resedue from the processing? Or is it that it's usually used in food that also include unhealty ingrediants?
  - AstralStorm 2y ago
    The main issues are dilution or outright removal of actual other nutritional components and usually yes, also the coexistence of other "adulterating" components, added for other reasons, usually colorants, preservatives and stabilizers. Ultraprocessed foods tend to either fall into junk food or preserves as categories. And no, adding a few vitamins doesn't restore the most of nutritional value. Especially when the removed things are fiber (for density) and essential oils (to prevent rancidity and extend shelf life). Sometimes even the absorption rate can change things - easier to overload on protein for example with micronized isolates than with slices of tofu, as they absorb so much better. Is also why it's easier to mess yourself up with sucrose (sugar) than with whole fruit, or with the purified juices.
    - 2y ago
grvdrm 2y ago
I determine the difference with this simple model: 1. It's processed if the list of ingredients spans a sizable portion of the package or label. 2. It's less (or not) processed if the list of ingredients is quite small. The line between 1 and 2 is totally subjective, of course. One example comes to mind: peanut butter, something my kids devour. Lots of peanut butter jars have extra things: salt, random oils (for spreading), etc. But, can peanut butter just be just peanuts? Yep, if you spend some extra time looking. Another example is an RxBar (less processed, few ingredients) vs. any standard granola (very processed, lots of ingredients) bar. And of course, so much stuff for kids is processed and worse.

_dark_matter_ 2y ago

Here's a gift link (and yes, it describes them in depth!): https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/06/well/eat/ultraprocessed-foods-harmful-health.html?unlocked_article_code=1.qk0.mXZe.XU5dW4Bwo0mT&smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/06/well/eat/ultraprocessed-f...

ronnier 2y ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/high-levels-of-ultra-processed-foods-linked-with-early-death-brain-issues/ar-BB1m3SK5 https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/high-levels-of-ultra-... > Ultra-processed foods encompass a broad category ranging from cookies, doughnuts and potato chips to hot dogs, white bread and frozen meals.

jcutrell 2y ago
I take umbrage with "frozen meals." Very often a frozen meal has straight up whole vegetables or pieces of meat. Freezing is one of the best ways to retain nutrition of vegetables etc as well. Totally different than white bread or hot dogs.
- Ferret7446 2y ago
  Your umbrage is misguided. Processing does not mean it lowers nutrition. In fact, processing can increase nutrition.

ufo 2y ago

It refers to the NOVA classification of foods, developed from research at the University of São Paulo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification The tl;dr of ultraprocessed is that it's those exclusively industrial foods prepared with ingredients you wouldn't stock in your pantry (high fructose corn syrup, artificial flavors, protein isolate, etc) In part, these foods are bad because they are high in sygar and salt. But that's not the point of the classification, which intentionally takes a step back from the old approach based of mesuring the individul ingredients and macronutrients. The central thesis is that, for public health policy it's easier to frame it as a discussion of traditional food vs industrial junk, and how ultraprocessed foods are replacing traditional foods. The classification doesn't want to get lost in the details of ingredients, which the industry has always been adept at gaming anyway (fat is the boogeyman -> replace it with sugar, add vitamins to make it sound healthier, etc)

dolni 2y ago
> for public health policy it's easier Your entire explanation seems to rest critically on this point. After COVID, I cannot support what's "easier" for public health policy. Do the work. "Easier" got us "N95s don't protect against COVID" and then it was "oh wait, actually cloth masks do!" A lot of this stuff relies on trust. I won't sit here and try to pretend that you will find health eating Doritos or McDonald's Big Macs. But is something like a low-sugar protein bar a decent option? How about Soylent? These are the nuanced questions that are actually useful to answer. Nobody actually thinks "ultra processed foods" are good for you to begin with.
- ufo 2y ago
  Why shouldn't the burden of proof be on the people making these meal replacements? The NOVA system is more interested in the wider effect of ultraprocessed foods replacing existing eating and cooking habits. The Brazilian dietary guidelines that were inspired by NOVA places a lot of importance in the social aspects of procuring food, preparing it, and eating it. In a sense, it's the antithesis of products such as Soylent.

taylorius 2y ago

One definition of ultraprocessed that I heard was the sort of food that needs specialised industrial processes and / or ingredients to create - something you couldn't really prepare in your kitchen.

skirmish 2y ago
So, any cheese or wine would be ultraprocessed according to that definition?
- adwi 2y ago
  No snark, just a great life tip: - put unpasteurized milk in a saucepan - bring it to slow simmer (~180F) - add a splash of an acid (lemon, white vinegar, etc) and remove from heat - skim and collect the curd that forms on top. This is fresh ricotta and it will make you very happy.
- ufo 2y ago
  Cheese & wine count as processed, but not as ultraprocessed. Kraft singles and other highly processed "cheese" are ultraprocessed. The main rule of thumb is to look at how long the ingredient list is.
bryanlarsen 2y ago
Very fine white flour is pretty easy to make in your kitchen with the right tools and is an ultra-processed food. Coarse ground brown flour is processed, but not ultra-processed.
- ufo 2y ago
  White flour is a processed ingredient, not ultra-processed.
  - bryanlarsen 2y ago
    That depends on which definition of ultra-processed you use. It's a product highly engineered for palatability. It's also surprisingly modern -- traditional flours are far more coarsely ground.

firebot 2y ago

There's the NOVA classifications. I'd say the major concerns are refinement, like white bread, white sugar, white rice, most oils are highly chemically processed besides "cold-pressed". On the flip side, foods should ideally be identifiable(look natural), and ideally, according to numerous studies, like on blue zones, where people tend to prioritize fresh fruits and vegetables, prepared 'simply'. The ideal amount of fruits and veggies tends to be around 9-12 servings, daily.

ilamont 2y ago

It does, and further provides an easy way to remember it: Food that you can't easily make in your kitchen with standard equipment and ingredients.

fyt2024 2y ago
I guess it depends https://m.youtube.com/@ZDFbesseresser https://m.youtube.com/@ZDFbesseresser Best cocking show ever. German but still watchable. You will realize that you must be nuts to eat processed food
Ferret7446 2y ago
Define "standard equipment and ingredients". Many "standard ingredients" are already (ultra-)processed.

incomingpain 2y ago

>Does this paywalled article even contain a definition of "processed" in this context? Or worse the ultraprocessed level. I dont think the article adequately defines either, but one can see what they are attempting to explain. >I've never understood what that word means in the context of food. I have something in my kitchen called a "food processor". It spins around and chops things with a blade. Is the product of a "food processor" not "processed food"? I think the author is not talking about food processors or doing procedures on food exactly. But rather suggesting the problem is industrialized food. "Soy protein isolate" is not something you're making in your kitchen. Or various other chemistry lab foods are allegedly a problem. >The closest I can figure to the media definition is that it is food that contains a lot of salt. Perhaps also preservatives. So are we really talking about the health effects of salt and preservatives? Preservatives do come into it. But it seems to me the diet folks are really struggling to figure out the correct diet.

camel-cdr 2y ago
> "Soy protein isolate" is not something you're making in your kitchen Is the idea that there is cemical resedue from the processing? Or is it that it's usually used in food that also include unhealty ingrediants?
- AstralStorm 2y ago
  The main issues are dilution or outright removal of actual other nutritional components and usually yes, also the coexistence of other "adulterating" components, added for other reasons, usually colorants, preservatives and stabilizers. Ultraprocessed foods tend to either fall into junk food or preserves as categories. And no, adding a few vitamins doesn't restore the most of nutritional value. Especially when the removed things are fiber (for density) and essential oils (to prevent rancidity and extend shelf life). Sometimes even the absorption rate can change things - easier to overload on protein for example with micronized isolates than with slices of tofu, as they absorb so much better. Is also why it's easier to mess yourself up with sucrose (sugar) than with whole fruit, or with the purified juices.
  - 2y ago

grvdrm 2y ago

I determine the difference with this simple model: 1. It's processed if the list of ingredients spans a sizable portion of the package or label. 2. It's less (or not) processed if the list of ingredients is quite small. The line between 1 and 2 is totally subjective, of course. One example comes to mind: peanut butter, something my kids devour. Lots of peanut butter jars have extra things: salt, random oils (for spreading), etc. But, can peanut butter just be just peanuts? Yep, if you spend some extra time looking. Another example is an RxBar (less processed, few ingredients) vs. any standard granola (very processed, lots of ingredients) bar. And of course, so much stuff for kids is processed and worse.