6 ms·

I upvoted this article, not because of its significance or because I think it's valuable (in truth, I think it contains a fair amount of slant), but because I'd

I upvoted this article, not because of its significance or because I think it's valuable (in truth, I think it contains a fair amount of slant), but because I'd love to hear some critical discourse on its contents. Good on these employees for sticking by their ethos, but I feel in terms of problems in the world right now, there are much bigger fish to fry that Microsoft is in a position to correct. This seems a bit like missing the forest for the trees.

nequo 2y ago
What is the bigger fish in your opinion?
- djantje 2y ago
  The energy hunger of the people of the world (you and me). Stopping Microsoft supporting oil companies won't fix reducing fossil fuel usage, we have to look at cause and effect. The best course of action to reduce fossil fuel usage is to see which processes on earth use that fossil fuel, and see if that can be transformed to use renewable energy. A combination of scientific research, regulation, awareness, education and trying to change human behaviour is probably the best way forward. Blaming specific companies, for helping solving an energy need, seems not helpfull in that way.
  - ClumsyPilot 2y ago
    > companies won't fix reducing fossil fuel usage, we have to look at cause and effect. Group for responsible solar is a fake charity funded by the oil sector that files planning objection to every solar farm in Britain, including noise complaints and ‘they should be on the roofs’ and then objects to the solar panels being on the roofs too, because they ‘ruin the view’. They’ve made it illegal to build wind turbines on land on UK They objected to an underground electricity cable to France because it would ‘ruin the landscape’ Oil companies are players, they protect their profits and you are getting played
    - djantje 2y ago
      Ofcourse oil companies are players, this is where regulations and rules are important, governments are also players in this arena. Is Microsoft a player, like that? I don't think so that much, they only have an active control on there own energy/oil usage. The only thing that will happen if Microsoft is giving in to these demands of employees, it will be perceived as morally good, and then in reality the oil companies still have a need and switch supplier. All because energy demand didn't change, only morals. It is like the Maslows hierarchy of needs, but then applied at a world scale, we need to take into account everybody's (humans, animals, nature, companies and other societal structures) needs, and address the problems from the ground up. Otherwise the world will end up in a fighting mess, like what you describe in the UK, fighting solar and wind energy, or those employees of Microsoft, all never actualizing the energy transition.
- dotnet00 2y ago
  Well, in the context of a tech giant like MS, there are the bigger fish of privacy, security and e-waste. Eg how many otherwise perfectly good computers are about to be thrown out as junk in the next few years because MS refuses to loosen Win11 system requirements? One would think that if these employees really cared about protecting the environment, they'd be arguing about things like that, which are much more directly tied to them than this indirect and weak argument against providing cloud services to oil companies.
spacebanana7 2y ago
> Good on these employees for sticking by their ethos I disagree. The improper use of political power is generally bad, even if it achieves good outcomes. For example, if US threatened to sanction any country where tobacco could be sold to under 18s it might reduce the global cancer rate by some amount - but the damage to the global system of governance would outweigh any realistic benefit. Similarly big tech companies have immense de facto power, but they should use it sparingly. Otherwise they undermine the parliaments, courts any other forums where energy regulation should legitimately be made.

nequo 2y ago

What is the bigger fish in your opinion?

djantje 2y ago
The energy hunger of the people of the world (you and me). Stopping Microsoft supporting oil companies won't fix reducing fossil fuel usage, we have to look at cause and effect. The best course of action to reduce fossil fuel usage is to see which processes on earth use that fossil fuel, and see if that can be transformed to use renewable energy. A combination of scientific research, regulation, awareness, education and trying to change human behaviour is probably the best way forward. Blaming specific companies, for helping solving an energy need, seems not helpfull in that way.
- ClumsyPilot 2y ago
  > companies won't fix reducing fossil fuel usage, we have to look at cause and effect. Group for responsible solar is a fake charity funded by the oil sector that files planning objection to every solar farm in Britain, including noise complaints and ‘they should be on the roofs’ and then objects to the solar panels being on the roofs too, because they ‘ruin the view’. They’ve made it illegal to build wind turbines on land on UK They objected to an underground electricity cable to France because it would ‘ruin the landscape’ Oil companies are players, they protect their profits and you are getting played
  - djantje 2y ago
    Ofcourse oil companies are players, this is where regulations and rules are important, governments are also players in this arena. Is Microsoft a player, like that? I don't think so that much, they only have an active control on there own energy/oil usage. The only thing that will happen if Microsoft is giving in to these demands of employees, it will be perceived as morally good, and then in reality the oil companies still have a need and switch supplier. All because energy demand didn't change, only morals. It is like the Maslows hierarchy of needs, but then applied at a world scale, we need to take into account everybody's (humans, animals, nature, companies and other societal structures) needs, and address the problems from the ground up. Otherwise the world will end up in a fighting mess, like what you describe in the UK, fighting solar and wind energy, or those employees of Microsoft, all never actualizing the energy transition.
dotnet00 2y ago
Well, in the context of a tech giant like MS, there are the bigger fish of privacy, security and e-waste. Eg how many otherwise perfectly good computers are about to be thrown out as junk in the next few years because MS refuses to loosen Win11 system requirements? One would think that if these employees really cared about protecting the environment, they'd be arguing about things like that, which are much more directly tied to them than this indirect and weak argument against providing cloud services to oil companies.

spacebanana7 2y ago

> Good on these employees for sticking by their ethos I disagree. The improper use of political power is generally bad, even if it achieves good outcomes. For example, if US threatened to sanction any country where tobacco could be sold to under 18s it might reduce the global cancer rate by some amount - but the damage to the global system of governance would outweigh any realistic benefit. Similarly big tech companies have immense de facto power, but they should use it sparingly. Otherwise they undermine the parliaments, courts any other forums where energy regulation should legitimately be made.