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Even if you take "neighbor" literally as adjacent and so do not care to include Yemen or Sudan, then consider the death rate of Syria. 300 thousand civilians de

Even if you take "neighbor" literally as adjacent and so do not care to include Yemen or Sudan, then consider the death rate of Syria. 300 thousand civilians dead and counting. 3,000 Palestinians massacred in the Yarmouk Camp Siege. Ugly, that. You will no doubt be relieved to know that Israel is not the #1 killer of Muslims by any measure, neither now nor in the past. Armed with this new information, you will no doubt become a prominent anti-Assad and -ISIL activist, organizing marches through the streets, calling for a ceasefire?

runarberg 2y ago
What is the point of this whataboutism? Yes there are some metrics where you can find a bigger killer of Muslims then Israel. There are other metrics where Israel is larger. But even still, Israel is killing a lot of people. Being top 5 in killing Muslim is not something you can be proud of by saying, “look at the top 4 muslim killers here”.
- rendall 2y ago
  > What is the point of this whataboutism? I'll answer, but I ask again: do you know what it is about the Palestinian cause that has you so exercised? Above, say, the Syrian or Sudanese or Yemen or Saudi or Iraqi or Lebanese causes, which are all far more deadly, even if you take Hamas' word for it. I mean, maybe you have an excellent reason...? My answer is that there is a lack of perspective when it comes to Israel. It's better that everyone understands the scale of the death and destruction in the region. What the people of Israel risk should the state fall. > Being top 5 in killing Muslim... Not top 5. Not even top 10. Don't take my word for it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_conflicts_in_the_Middle_East https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_conflicts_in_th...
  - racional 2y ago
    If we start at 1936 (when the conflict in Palestine began in earnest), bucket by country (consistent with the fact that Israel's myriad wars up until the current one have been lumped together in a single "conflict"); and divide by net population -- then Israel's per-capita ranking does seem to take place 5 or so out of the 17 countries involved, in terms of the Arab/Muslim killing business. In terms of immediate neighbors - just behind (and much closer to) Lebanon and Syria, but much greater numerically than Jordan / Egypt / Saudi.
    - rendall 2y ago
      The conflict in Palestine started way earlier than that. At least since the end of the Ottoman Empire in 1917. Might have really gotten going with the Hebron Massacre of 1929 but even that was preceded by Arab riots beginning even in 1920. Jews were already well sick of Arabs' shit by the time 1948 rolled around.
      - racional 2y ago
        Jews were already well sick of Arabs' shit Funny you should mention. At least some of the new arrivals from Europe were apparently "already well sick of the Arabs' shit" from the minute they landed in their new homeland. As Ahad Ha'am (Asher Zvi Ginsburg) wrote in 1891, regarding the early Zionist settlers: They were slaves in their land of exile, and they suddenly find themselves with unlimited freedom, the kind of wild freedom to be found only in a country like Turkey. This sudden change has engendered in them an impulse to despotism, as always happens when "a slave becomes a king," and behold they walk with the Arabs in hostility and cruelty, unjustly encroaching on them, shamefully beating them for no good reason, and even bragging about what they do, and there is no one to stand in the breach and call a halt to this dangerous and despicable impulse. To be sure our people are correct in saying that the Arab respects only those who demonstrate strength and courage, but this is relevant only when he feels that his rival is acting justly; it is not the case if there is reason to think his rival's actions are oppressive and unjust. Of course by 1917 everyone knew what was up. As presaged by Herzl in his diary (1895): We must expropriate gently the private property on the estates assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment in our own country. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly. The roots of the conflict run very deep indeed.
        rendall 2y ago
        Against a guy's essay, which was criticised, you have actual murders, rapes and robbery by Arabs against Jews. Here is a list: "List of killings and massacres in Mandatory Palestine": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres... Several things to note: That particular list starts in 1920, not because that's when Arabs began their nonsense but because it's a list of massacres in Mandatory Palestine and that started in 1918. The Muslim Arab massacre of Jews began literally at the beginning of Islam. But perhaps directly relevant, Arabs massacred Jews throughout the 1800s in spasms of violence in Jerusalem, Hebron, Safed, Aleppo, Cairo, Damascus and surrounds. The war against Jews in 1948 and all the accusations against Jews for "stealing land" was just a continuation of centuries of SOP. Despite all of this violence, directed by Arabs towards Jews, thousands of Jewish deaths at the hands of Arabs in the preceding decades and centuries and millenia, you have to scroll down to 1939 before finding the first instance of Jewish retaliation. As for "Zionists stole muh lands", here is a concise video that makes the case in under a minute that Jews stole no Arab land. https://youtube.com/shorts/a3CNMHabxrE https://youtube.com/shorts/a3CNMHabxrE > *You, after quoting a 1915 essay*: "The roots of the conflict run very deep indeed." You wouldn't believe how deep.
racional 2y ago
You will no doubt be relieved to know that Israel is not the #1 killer of Muslims by any measure, neither now nor in the past. The IDF is unequivocally the agent behind of the largest number of non-combatant Muslim deaths in a single country since Oct 7 (and most likely including all of 2023). More than Darfur, Myanmar, Yemen and Syria presently. The same outfit which holds itself up as "the most moral army in the world".

runarberg 2y ago

What is the point of this whataboutism? Yes there are some metrics where you can find a bigger killer of Muslims then Israel. There are other metrics where Israel is larger. But even still, Israel is killing a lot of people. Being top 5 in killing Muslim is not something you can be proud of by saying, “look at the top 4 muslim killers here”.

rendall 2y ago
> What is the point of this whataboutism? I'll answer, but I ask again: do you know what it is about the Palestinian cause that has you so exercised? Above, say, the Syrian or Sudanese or Yemen or Saudi or Iraqi or Lebanese causes, which are all far more deadly, even if you take Hamas' word for it. I mean, maybe you have an excellent reason...? My answer is that there is a lack of perspective when it comes to Israel. It's better that everyone understands the scale of the death and destruction in the region. What the people of Israel risk should the state fall. > Being top 5 in killing Muslim... Not top 5. Not even top 10. Don't take my word for it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_conflicts_in_the_Middle_East https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_conflicts_in_th...
- racional 2y ago
  If we start at 1936 (when the conflict in Palestine began in earnest), bucket by country (consistent with the fact that Israel's myriad wars up until the current one have been lumped together in a single "conflict"); and divide by net population -- then Israel's per-capita ranking does seem to take place 5 or so out of the 17 countries involved, in terms of the Arab/Muslim killing business. In terms of immediate neighbors - just behind (and much closer to) Lebanon and Syria, but much greater numerically than Jordan / Egypt / Saudi.
  - rendall 2y ago
    The conflict in Palestine started way earlier than that. At least since the end of the Ottoman Empire in 1917. Might have really gotten going with the Hebron Massacre of 1929 but even that was preceded by Arab riots beginning even in 1920. Jews were already well sick of Arabs' shit by the time 1948 rolled around.
    - racional 2y ago
      Jews were already well sick of Arabs' shit Funny you should mention. At least some of the new arrivals from Europe were apparently "already well sick of the Arabs' shit" from the minute they landed in their new homeland. As Ahad Ha'am (Asher Zvi Ginsburg) wrote in 1891, regarding the early Zionist settlers: They were slaves in their land of exile, and they suddenly find themselves with unlimited freedom, the kind of wild freedom to be found only in a country like Turkey. This sudden change has engendered in them an impulse to despotism, as always happens when "a slave becomes a king," and behold they walk with the Arabs in hostility and cruelty, unjustly encroaching on them, shamefully beating them for no good reason, and even bragging about what they do, and there is no one to stand in the breach and call a halt to this dangerous and despicable impulse. To be sure our people are correct in saying that the Arab respects only those who demonstrate strength and courage, but this is relevant only when he feels that his rival is acting justly; it is not the case if there is reason to think his rival's actions are oppressive and unjust. Of course by 1917 everyone knew what was up. As presaged by Herzl in his diary (1895): We must expropriate gently the private property on the estates assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment in our own country. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly. The roots of the conflict run very deep indeed.
      - rendall 2y ago
        Against a guy's essay, which was criticised, you have actual murders, rapes and robbery by Arabs against Jews. Here is a list: "List of killings and massacres in Mandatory Palestine": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres... Several things to note: That particular list starts in 1920, not because that's when Arabs began their nonsense but because it's a list of massacres in Mandatory Palestine and that started in 1918. The Muslim Arab massacre of Jews began literally at the beginning of Islam. But perhaps directly relevant, Arabs massacred Jews throughout the 1800s in spasms of violence in Jerusalem, Hebron, Safed, Aleppo, Cairo, Damascus and surrounds. The war against Jews in 1948 and all the accusations against Jews for "stealing land" was just a continuation of centuries of SOP. Despite all of this violence, directed by Arabs towards Jews, thousands of Jewish deaths at the hands of Arabs in the preceding decades and centuries and millenia, you have to scroll down to 1939 before finding the first instance of Jewish retaliation. As for "Zionists stole muh lands", here is a concise video that makes the case in under a minute that Jews stole no Arab land. https://youtube.com/shorts/a3CNMHabxrE https://youtube.com/shorts/a3CNMHabxrE > *You, after quoting a 1915 essay*: "The roots of the conflict run very deep indeed." You wouldn't believe how deep.

racional 2y ago

You will no doubt be relieved to know that Israel is not the #1 killer of Muslims by any measure, neither now nor in the past. The IDF is unequivocally the agent behind of the largest number of non-combatant Muslim deaths in a single country since Oct 7 (and most likely including all of 2023). More than Darfur, Myanmar, Yemen and Syria presently. The same outfit which holds itself up as "the most moral army in the world".