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Oh, you’re counting clicks. That tells me all I need to know about the author’s UX knowledge. Some things do need friction. Just like with baby clothes. Someth

by bena 2y ago

Oh, you’re counting clicks. That tells me all I need to know about the author’s UX knowledge. Some things do need friction. Just like with baby clothes. Something too easy to remove will leave you with a perpetually naked baby. And that’s what the tweet thread is about, she doesn’t like Blackboard’s UX. And that’s fair, it might not suit her particular needs. However, a bespoke solution is going to cost far more than any number of Blackboard licenses. And Blackboard is going to gun for “mostly ok” for “most teachers”. It’s essentially the Word paradox. Everyone only uses 10% of its features, but everyone uses a different 10%. You can’t optimize for that.

rgmerk 2y ago
I used Blackboard for a decade. Trust me, it's awful.
NegativeLatency 2y ago
As a student who used blackboard in college it was terrible
esafak 2y ago
Have you used Blackboard? Did you feel it was so full of features that you only used 10% but the parts you used were solid? I remember disliking it thoroughly. I think the other posters have correctly identified the problem as the principal-agent dilemma.
- bena 2y ago
  Blackboard could be awful, but not for the reason she states. That’s the issue here. Her giving UX advice would be like software developers making education software without input from educators.
  - esafak 2y ago
    Minimizing the number of clicks -- work required to accomplish a task -- is actually a valid focus of UX, called information architecture. It even has a pithy rule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-click_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-click_rule
    - alpinisme 2y ago
      I’m not trying to take a stance in this disagreement but your own links says, > The three click rule has been challenged by usability test results, which have shown that the number of clicks needed to access the desired information affects neither user satisfaction, nor success rate.
      - esafak 2y ago
        That's a bad summary and defines common sense, as stated. The situation where more clicks won't lead to dissatisfaction is when results are progressively disclosed. If you can design your UI to achieve the same thing with less work and without overwhelming the user you should. https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/topics/progressive-disclosure https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/topics/progres...
  - ohmyiv 2y ago
    The guy is a CS prof at Princeton. He worked with Mozilla on Do Not Track in HTTP headers. It's not some random teacher. I think he has a little idea of what UX should at least look like. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvind_Narayanan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvind_Narayanan
    - bena 2y ago
      He might know it is important, but if you look at his CV, it's mostly non-user facing issues. And that's not to diminish what he's done. I don't expect everyone to be an expert in all fields. I wouldn't get someone who only wrote microcontrollers to redesign my frontend. And I wouldn't get a CS professor to write my microcontroller software. I wouldn't go to GP for cancer and I wouldn't go to a Oncologist for physical therapy.
      - infamouscow 2y ago
        Even the blind complain about how terrible the UX of Blackboard is. Their opinion certainly holds more weight than whatever pathetic appeal to authority you're trying to make. Pointing to some ink on paper isn't some magic spell that compels others to take you seriously. It only convinces people that already appeal to authority.
        bena 2y ago
        Accessibility is a whole other can of worms. I suspect blind people have issues with a lot of software. And I'm not the one appealing to authority. That's the people saying the author is a CS professor so he's obviously right without actually engaging in the claims.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        ohmyiv 2y ago
        I brought that up because you automatically assumed it was just some random teacher that knows nothing about UX. Maybe if you took a second to realise it wasn't some random teacher, I wouldn't have mentioned it. Engaging in claims? You immediately dismissed the opinion when you read about clicks. So don't try and say people aren't engaging the claims. You don't even use the software so how can you say he's wrong? If the user is unhappy, then maybe take a look at the reasons. But you just dismiss someone else's opinion because it doesn't match yours without even seeing what he's talking about. And that's why everyone is bringing up the question of if _you_ used it. Because what the end user experiences is what UX focuses on. If you don't know how the workflow of blackboard, you can't say that 15 clicks isn't a nothing burger and someone who uses the software has an irrelevant opinion.

by bena 2y ago

rgmerk 2y ago

I used Blackboard for a decade. Trust me, it's awful.

NegativeLatency 2y ago

As a student who used blackboard in college it was terrible

esafak 2y ago

Have you used Blackboard? Did you feel it was so full of features that you only used 10% but the parts you used were solid? I remember disliking it thoroughly. I think the other posters have correctly identified the problem as the principal-agent dilemma.

bena 2y ago
Blackboard could be awful, but not for the reason she states. That’s the issue here. Her giving UX advice would be like software developers making education software without input from educators.
- esafak 2y ago
  Minimizing the number of clicks -- work required to accomplish a task -- is actually a valid focus of UX, called information architecture. It even has a pithy rule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-click_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-click_rule
  - alpinisme 2y ago
    I’m not trying to take a stance in this disagreement but your own links says, > The three click rule has been challenged by usability test results, which have shown that the number of clicks needed to access the desired information affects neither user satisfaction, nor success rate.
    - esafak 2y ago
      That's a bad summary and defines common sense, as stated. The situation where more clicks won't lead to dissatisfaction is when results are progressively disclosed. If you can design your UI to achieve the same thing with less work and without overwhelming the user you should. https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/topics/progressive-disclosure https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/topics/progres...
- ohmyiv 2y ago
  The guy is a CS prof at Princeton. He worked with Mozilla on Do Not Track in HTTP headers. It's not some random teacher. I think he has a little idea of what UX should at least look like. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvind_Narayanan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvind_Narayanan
  - bena 2y ago
    He might know it is important, but if you look at his CV, it's mostly non-user facing issues. And that's not to diminish what he's done. I don't expect everyone to be an expert in all fields. I wouldn't get someone who only wrote microcontrollers to redesign my frontend. And I wouldn't get a CS professor to write my microcontroller software. I wouldn't go to GP for cancer and I wouldn't go to a Oncologist for physical therapy.
    - infamouscow 2y ago
      Even the blind complain about how terrible the UX of Blackboard is. Their opinion certainly holds more weight than whatever pathetic appeal to authority you're trying to make. Pointing to some ink on paper isn't some magic spell that compels others to take you seriously. It only convinces people that already appeal to authority.
      - bena 2y ago
        Accessibility is a whole other can of worms. I suspect blind people have issues with a lot of software. And I'm not the one appealing to authority. That's the people saying the author is a CS professor so he's obviously right without actually engaging in the claims.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        ohmyiv 2y ago
        I brought that up because you automatically assumed it was just some random teacher that knows nothing about UX. Maybe if you took a second to realise it wasn't some random teacher, I wouldn't have mentioned it. Engaging in claims? You immediately dismissed the opinion when you read about clicks. So don't try and say people aren't engaging the claims. You don't even use the software so how can you say he's wrong? If the user is unhappy, then maybe take a look at the reasons. But you just dismiss someone else's opinion because it doesn't match yours without even seeing what he's talking about. And that's why everyone is bringing up the question of if _you_ used it. Because what the end user experiences is what UX focuses on. If you don't know how the workflow of blackboard, you can't say that 15 clicks isn't a nothing burger and someone who uses the software has an irrelevant opinion.