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This is missing the fact that the stainless steel from the ultra-durable umbrella is also easy to recycle. In fact, steel is far easier to recycle than any kind

This is missing the fact that the stainless steel from the ultra-durable umbrella is also easy to recycle. In fact, steel is far easier to recycle than any kind of plastic. Also, the whole work seems to skip over the huge problem of insufficient customer information: There is a remark in there, that lots of people (about half) seem to choose the ultra-durable umbrella, rather than one of the less resource-intensive ones. The reason for this imho isn't that people don't care about the resources. It is rather that everyone has been conditioned to assume that products are crappier than specified. People do not and usually can not know how durable each product they are offered will be. And buying something ultra-durable-seeming at least gives you a chance at a decent product lifetime. All the rest is usually crappier than expected. One reason is that the environmentally friendlier alternatives are often also materials of lesser quality. E.g. recycled plastic degrades and is more brittle than "fresh". The other reason is greedy manufacturers, saving on necessary materials, making products less durable. And maybe intentionally building in weak points, limiting lifetime to sell more stuff.

mc32 2y ago
All true, but one missing is the one where people abuse things and use them in ways that were not intended by the manufacturer.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  It really sucks when the product is so fragile you can't do it. Items do not have inherent, fixed purpose, they're physical objects. If I can use my umbrella as a hammer in a pinch, that's a value-add.
eep_social 2y ago
Another reason I seek the durable version is that I despise change. Once I procure an umbrella that meets my needs, I don’t ever want to have to spend the time to go find another. If I manage to wear it out, I will grudgingly replace it with the exact same thing but if that’s not available I’ll go without rather than going through the process of finding a good one again. Modern casual clothing is a disaster in this regard because even the same sku often won’t be the same product year over year.
- mrbungie 2y ago
  About clothing: that and society tends to mock those who repeat the same clothes in a short period of time, promoting cheap/mass fashion and therefore waste. I would rather focus on upcycling repairable clothes rather than promoting so much waste. Specially when a sweater I love tears, I (1) loss the sweater and (2) can't get said clothing item because as you say, the sku or even the brand may not exist anymore. Newer is not always better, both in function and form. Point in case: Mark Zuckerberg and his style change from a anime/cartoon closet full of grey tshirts and blue jeans to a typical sugar daddy atire/style just to appeal to bigger audience without any internal change. Stupid monkey brains.
  - luqtas 2y ago
    people who mock people because repeated clothes aren't at their social circle (at least in a meaningful level) or if they do, sit & talk or it's time to move on... i'm almost hitting 30, i still use some 14 y/o clothes and last time i bought stuff was more than 5 years ago because of a hobby. tho i appreciate stylistic people walking at streets. maybe fashion is not that hard to recycle if we use mostly compostable stuff? from leather of pineapple waste, (recycled) cotton and so on
  - MeImCounting 2y ago
    In my social circles youre far more likely to be mocked if you spend a lot of money on new clothes or cheap/low quality clothes. Its expected that you buy something high quality from a thrift store and wear it until it wears out/splurge on something new and high quality and wear it until it wears out and repair it indefinitely.
  - brabel 2y ago
    I have clothes from 25 years ago, still looking pretty good but I can barely wear them now because they're so utterly out of fashion :D. I am by no means a "fashionable" person, but even I would be a bit hesitant to go out on my early 90's baggy shorts or my black leather jacket that looks straight out of an 80's action movie. I believe that's why clothes these days barely last a year. People actually don't seem to mind because every year the fashion changes. I really hate that mindset but that seems to be how almost everyone thinks.
Aloisius 2y ago
> Many of the objects we use daily are made from mixed materials, ones are often difficult to separate [for recycling]. This cost can outweigh the value of the materials, so these objects are very likely to end up in Landfill. Of course, mixing materials offers functional benefits such as combinations of soft & hard structures, and nowhere else is this more true [than] with Umbrellas. FTA with context added.
IgorPartola 2y ago
Aside but one interesting consequence of using plastic in certain kinds of products is that it can be a sacrificial part. If you don’t design a point of failure into your system one will be assigned to it. I recently had this realization after installing a new garage door opener. The motor on it is much stronger than my old one but some parts are far flimsier. Then it dawned on me that I’d rather have a cheap plastic gear break if something goes wrong than have it burn up the unit or swing a high tension belt around. Longevity doesn’t always mean making everything out of cast iron and stainless steel. It can mean making the thing repairable using cheap and available parts.
- thegrim33 2y ago
  3D printing options aside, there's no possibility of me replacing random plastic components that break. I'm dependent on some industrial manufacturer producing the random plastic broken part for me, and getting it to me. If something metallic fails, it's much simpler in comparison to fashion a replacement / repair the failure myself. I can work with metal. I can't work with plastic.
  - picture 2y ago
    Have you used polycaprolactone/PCL aka "InstaMorph" for hobby/projects? It's a very tough plastic that can be melted by putting it in hot water, then formed by hand. I think something like a linkage made out of this material could be a fantastic intentional failure point for certain mechanical systems, as long as the temperature requirement is not much higher than human conditions. Also, if you have a hot air blower, you can repair it in-situ. I'm honestly not sure why we don't see more of this plastic used for consumer stuff. Something that you can melt down and fix stuff or make little ornaments sounds like a great marketing gimmick. It's also generally a pretty bio-safe plastic.
    - eropple 2y ago
      In industry, it's because it's so low-temperature. The benefits of using it aren't outweighed by the potential failure risks in it in pieces not designed to be repaired. Also, just kinda--it's not well known! You can't even find it as a 3D printer filament without a lot of effort, even though those "3D pens" often use it, because the output is so unimpressive to most people. That's not that it is unimpressive, it's because they don't know much about it, much like how people act like there's a "leveling up" by switching from PLA to PETG to ABS.
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A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
Recyclability isn't really an issue, because the steel umbrella is not viable as a product. This is on account of its weight. > Total weight of assembled umbrella: 1.71kg The average umbrella, and the plastic one at the link, weigh roughly a quarter of that amount. There are golf umbrellas, considered extremely heavy, at ~0.9kg, e.g.: https://shedrain.com/products/vortex-vent-pro https://shedrain.com/products/vortex-vent-pro The ultra-durable umbrella is an exercise in making a product that appears to be an umbrella out of heavy-duty materials. But it's not an umbrella that's viable as a commercial product; it wasn't designed with the average user's capabilities in mind. Most people, even trained athletes, would not be happy to lug around an umbrella that weighs nearly four pounds. I'm sure it's possible to strike a balance, perhaps with aluminum or magnesium (expensive!) instead of steel. But the project didn't attempt it -- it went with steel to make a point. In real-life product engineering, though, every gram saved is worth celebrating.
- BlueTemplar 2y ago
  Why was the handle made of stainless steel, and not, say, wood ? Looks to be a significant fraction of mass, while not being the typical part that would break ?
  - hbosch 2y ago
    Steel is more durable than wood.
    - HideousKojima 2y ago
      >while not being the typical part that would break ?
- helsinkiandrew 2y ago
  My James Smith & Sons Umbrella has a lightweight steel frame (apparently invented by James Smith the 2nd in 1851) - weighs about 500g and has lasted 30+ years. https://www.james-smith.co.uk/product/umbrellas/gents-umbrellas/the-london/london-umbrella-with-malacca-cane-crook/ https://www.james-smith.co.uk/product/umbrellas/gents-umbrel...
bayindirh 2y ago
> The reason for this imho isn't that people don't care about the resources. It is rather that everyone has been conditioned to assume that products are crappier than specified. Personally I'm very aware of the labor and resources required to build a high quality item. This is why I buy them. It's made by humans, with great effort, to have a long life. Honestly, I want all my items to "positively age" with me as much as possible, and even if they become slightly insufficient (storage devices, or electronics in general), I try to find uses for them until they reach their true end of their life. And yes, I don't like crappy items. I want to buy one item once (or as few times possible) and have good performance performing its function. It can be an umbrella, a shoe, a keyboard or a pen. Anything, actually.
goeiedaggoeie 2y ago
Agreed on using energy consumption and how many times do you reasonably expect to use it as important considerations. Additionally you have to factor in the toxicity you introduce, especially with things like cookware. An umbrella maybe a 1000 times (massive upper bound), but a le creuset pot I would expect to use 3000 times, and we eat the foot made in it.
spandrew 2y ago
Ya this was the first thing I saw. It's a student project so we should be open that he's learning, but I wouldn't call this umbrella recyclable if it's constituent parts will likely end up floating in the ocean forever. If umbrella's were built with repairability in mind I would love it, though. So many I've used were destined to break under the strain of the wind.
tonetegeatinst 2y ago
Also keep in mind that metal is stronger than plastic. Sure it might rust if you don't use a preventitive coating....a coating is not a paint BTW theirs a massive difference. Plastic is cheaper. Sure those injection molds are expensive as fuck to make and have a limited life just like anything but the major reason plastic is seen as desirable is that its cheap, and its way easier to produce 10000 plastic spoons than to cast 10000 spoons. Casting isn't fast and takes up a lot of space and its harder to heat up metal than plastic. And even if your machining a part, plastic is just cheaper when it comes to the footprint and the density of plastic is lower than metal which means handling raw materials is easier. The downside is recycling and lifespan. A good metal part beats plastic when it comes to so many tests....but its not fast or cheap to make. Is the metal recyclable....yes....but plastic dosnt have to get up to insane temps to get it molten, and you can machine plastic with basically anything as long as its sharp, while metal machining is a process that needs really strong sharp inserts, saws, or EDM machines, and all of that means a heavier footprint both in weight,and carbon footprint.

mc32 2y ago

All true, but one missing is the one where people abuse things and use them in ways that were not intended by the manufacturer.

TeMPOraL 2y ago
It really sucks when the product is so fragile you can't do it. Items do not have inherent, fixed purpose, they're physical objects. If I can use my umbrella as a hammer in a pinch, that's a value-add.

eep_social 2y ago

Another reason I seek the durable version is that I despise change. Once I procure an umbrella that meets my needs, I don’t ever want to have to spend the time to go find another. If I manage to wear it out, I will grudgingly replace it with the exact same thing but if that’s not available I’ll go without rather than going through the process of finding a good one again. Modern casual clothing is a disaster in this regard because even the same sku often won’t be the same product year over year.

mrbungie 2y ago
About clothing: that and society tends to mock those who repeat the same clothes in a short period of time, promoting cheap/mass fashion and therefore waste. I would rather focus on upcycling repairable clothes rather than promoting so much waste. Specially when a sweater I love tears, I (1) loss the sweater and (2) can't get said clothing item because as you say, the sku or even the brand may not exist anymore. Newer is not always better, both in function and form. Point in case: Mark Zuckerberg and his style change from a anime/cartoon closet full of grey tshirts and blue jeans to a typical sugar daddy atire/style just to appeal to bigger audience without any internal change. Stupid monkey brains.
- luqtas 2y ago
  people who mock people because repeated clothes aren't at their social circle (at least in a meaningful level) or if they do, sit & talk or it's time to move on... i'm almost hitting 30, i still use some 14 y/o clothes and last time i bought stuff was more than 5 years ago because of a hobby. tho i appreciate stylistic people walking at streets. maybe fashion is not that hard to recycle if we use mostly compostable stuff? from leather of pineapple waste, (recycled) cotton and so on
- MeImCounting 2y ago
  In my social circles youre far more likely to be mocked if you spend a lot of money on new clothes or cheap/low quality clothes. Its expected that you buy something high quality from a thrift store and wear it until it wears out/splurge on something new and high quality and wear it until it wears out and repair it indefinitely.
- brabel 2y ago
  I have clothes from 25 years ago, still looking pretty good but I can barely wear them now because they're so utterly out of fashion :D. I am by no means a "fashionable" person, but even I would be a bit hesitant to go out on my early 90's baggy shorts or my black leather jacket that looks straight out of an 80's action movie. I believe that's why clothes these days barely last a year. People actually don't seem to mind because every year the fashion changes. I really hate that mindset but that seems to be how almost everyone thinks.

Aloisius 2y ago

> Many of the objects we use daily are made from mixed materials, ones are often difficult to separate [for recycling]. This cost can outweigh the value of the materials, so these objects are very likely to end up in Landfill. Of course, mixing materials offers functional benefits such as combinations of soft & hard structures, and nowhere else is this more true [than] with Umbrellas. FTA with context added.

IgorPartola 2y ago

Aside but one interesting consequence of using plastic in certain kinds of products is that it can be a sacrificial part. If you don’t design a point of failure into your system one will be assigned to it. I recently had this realization after installing a new garage door opener. The motor on it is much stronger than my old one but some parts are far flimsier. Then it dawned on me that I’d rather have a cheap plastic gear break if something goes wrong than have it burn up the unit or swing a high tension belt around. Longevity doesn’t always mean making everything out of cast iron and stainless steel. It can mean making the thing repairable using cheap and available parts.

thegrim33 2y ago
3D printing options aside, there's no possibility of me replacing random plastic components that break. I'm dependent on some industrial manufacturer producing the random plastic broken part for me, and getting it to me. If something metallic fails, it's much simpler in comparison to fashion a replacement / repair the failure myself. I can work with metal. I can't work with plastic.
- picture 2y ago
  Have you used polycaprolactone/PCL aka "InstaMorph" for hobby/projects? It's a very tough plastic that can be melted by putting it in hot water, then formed by hand. I think something like a linkage made out of this material could be a fantastic intentional failure point for certain mechanical systems, as long as the temperature requirement is not much higher than human conditions. Also, if you have a hot air blower, you can repair it in-situ. I'm honestly not sure why we don't see more of this plastic used for consumer stuff. Something that you can melt down and fix stuff or make little ornaments sounds like a great marketing gimmick. It's also generally a pretty bio-safe plastic.
  - eropple 2y ago
    In industry, it's because it's so low-temperature. The benefits of using it aren't outweighed by the potential failure risks in it in pieces not designed to be repaired. Also, just kinda--it's not well known! You can't even find it as a 3D printer filament without a lot of effort, even though those "3D pens" often use it, because the output is so unimpressive to most people. That's not that it is unimpressive, it's because they don't know much about it, much like how people act like there's a "leveling up" by switching from PLA to PETG to ABS.

deleted 2y ago

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deleted 2y ago

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A_D_E_P_T 2y ago

Recyclability isn't really an issue, because the steel umbrella is not viable as a product. This is on account of its weight. > Total weight of assembled umbrella: 1.71kg The average umbrella, and the plastic one at the link, weigh roughly a quarter of that amount. There are golf umbrellas, considered extremely heavy, at ~0.9kg, e.g.: https://shedrain.com/products/vortex-vent-pro https://shedrain.com/products/vortex-vent-pro The ultra-durable umbrella is an exercise in making a product that appears to be an umbrella out of heavy-duty materials. But it's not an umbrella that's viable as a commercial product; it wasn't designed with the average user's capabilities in mind. Most people, even trained athletes, would not be happy to lug around an umbrella that weighs nearly four pounds. I'm sure it's possible to strike a balance, perhaps with aluminum or magnesium (expensive!) instead of steel. But the project didn't attempt it -- it went with steel to make a point. In real-life product engineering, though, every gram saved is worth celebrating.

BlueTemplar 2y ago
Why was the handle made of stainless steel, and not, say, wood ? Looks to be a significant fraction of mass, while not being the typical part that would break ?
- hbosch 2y ago
  Steel is more durable than wood.
  - HideousKojima 2y ago
    >while not being the typical part that would break ?
helsinkiandrew 2y ago
My James Smith & Sons Umbrella has a lightweight steel frame (apparently invented by James Smith the 2nd in 1851) - weighs about 500g and has lasted 30+ years. https://www.james-smith.co.uk/product/umbrellas/gents-umbrellas/the-london/london-umbrella-with-malacca-cane-crook/ https://www.james-smith.co.uk/product/umbrellas/gents-umbrel...

bayindirh 2y ago

> The reason for this imho isn't that people don't care about the resources. It is rather that everyone has been conditioned to assume that products are crappier than specified. Personally I'm very aware of the labor and resources required to build a high quality item. This is why I buy them. It's made by humans, with great effort, to have a long life. Honestly, I want all my items to "positively age" with me as much as possible, and even if they become slightly insufficient (storage devices, or electronics in general), I try to find uses for them until they reach their true end of their life. And yes, I don't like crappy items. I want to buy one item once (or as few times possible) and have good performance performing its function. It can be an umbrella, a shoe, a keyboard or a pen. Anything, actually.

goeiedaggoeie 2y ago

Agreed on using energy consumption and how many times do you reasonably expect to use it as important considerations. Additionally you have to factor in the toxicity you introduce, especially with things like cookware. An umbrella maybe a 1000 times (massive upper bound), but a le creuset pot I would expect to use 3000 times, and we eat the foot made in it.

spandrew 2y ago

Ya this was the first thing I saw. It's a student project so we should be open that he's learning, but I wouldn't call this umbrella recyclable if it's constituent parts will likely end up floating in the ocean forever. If umbrella's were built with repairability in mind I would love it, though. So many I've used were destined to break under the strain of the wind.

tonetegeatinst 2y ago

Also keep in mind that metal is stronger than plastic. Sure it might rust if you don't use a preventitive coating....a coating is not a paint BTW theirs a massive difference. Plastic is cheaper. Sure those injection molds are expensive as fuck to make and have a limited life just like anything but the major reason plastic is seen as desirable is that its cheap, and its way easier to produce 10000 plastic spoons than to cast 10000 spoons. Casting isn't fast and takes up a lot of space and its harder to heat up metal than plastic. And even if your machining a part, plastic is just cheaper when it comes to the footprint and the density of plastic is lower than metal which means handling raw materials is easier. The downside is recycling and lifespan. A good metal part beats plastic when it comes to so many tests....but its not fast or cheap to make. Is the metal recyclable....yes....but plastic dosnt have to get up to insane temps to get it molten, and you can machine plastic with basically anything as long as its sharp, while metal machining is a process that needs really strong sharp inserts, saws, or EDM machines, and all of that means a heavier footprint both in weight,and carbon footprint.