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I'm not leery of Google shuttering its Gmail service, but I can imagine a scenario where they cut off my access to Gmail and I have no way to plead my case to t

by there 14y ago

I'm not leery of Google shuttering its Gmail service, but I can imagine a scenario where they cut off my access to Gmail and I have no way to plead my case to the search behemoth. I am baffled at how people continue using such a service for something as important as e-mail in 2012, while still being fully aware that their access can be completely cut off at random with no reason or recourse. Does everyone just assume "it won't happen to me"?

icebraining 14y ago
Shit happens with every provider, free or paid; hoping it won't because you pay $400/month for it is foolish. The smart thing is to make sure it doesn't affect you much, by decoupling from the service and turning it into a replaceable commodity as much as possible. That means using your own domain, keeping backups, etc. Then, when shit happens, you can just sign up for another provider and keep going.
- there 14y ago
  Shit happens, but with nearly every other provider, you can at least talk to someone to find out what happened and get your service restored, or at least get your data.
  - icebraining 14y ago
    You can always get your data if you do backups - like you should in any case - so that point is moot. So, you're paying and giving up on a nice webmail client with two-factor auth (how many providers offer this?) for "finding out what happen". I don't think it's a great deal. I'm not a Gmail apologist, by the way - I think there are valid reasons not to use it, like not giving Google a copy of your whole life - but I don't find their policy for when "shit happens" a real problem.
    - replax 14y ago
      You do not have to give GMail up, not sure where you read that... The point was, that exclusively relying on it is not smart, if email is important to you. You can easily use the full benefits of your gmail convenience while still having a fully working fallback. There are even two ways of doing it, one would be to simply forward your email, or using your own domain on google apps.
      - icebraining 14y ago
        You do not have to give GMail up, not sure where you read that... Hmm, from the first post I replied to (by 'there'): I am baffled at how people continue using such a service
sneak 14y ago
> I am baffled at how people continue using such a service for something as important as e-mail in 2012 It's free and works PERFECTLY 99.9%+ of the time, for 99.9%+ of users. The edge case (being shut off) can be easily worked around by having backups and changing your MX records to some other email provider ifwhen you find yourself without service from Google. This risk is acceptable when weighed against "worst-case is 24 hours of no email while I switch providers", and even that probably won't happen. If it does happen to you, it's just a small temporary inconvenience with no lasting effect. "Shit happens, always have regular tested backups (gmail or otherwise)" negates any potential data loss.
- jarofgreen 14y ago
  Of course that only applies to Google Apps and not @gmail.com addresses. But good point, and I reckon that's another good reason for anyone using email for professional purposes to get their own domain and use it. (One of my pet peeves is seeing businesses advertise a www.mycompany.co.uk website and a bob@aol.com address. Small places do it a lot - why would you buy a domain and not use it fully? Why?)
  - crdoconnor 14y ago
    Inertia.
Tooluka 14y ago
What is so important about email in 2012? Tell your contacts your new email, and change restore email option at web resources. Sure, it is a bit uncomfortable and will take 1-2 days to finish, but probability of this scenario is very low.
- there 14y ago
  It's also the backdoor to nearly every online account you have, by way of 'reset password' links.
  - snowwrestler 14y ago
    That would be a problem if your Gmail was hacked. The GP is talking about Google themselves blocking access. I'm not worried that Google will reset my passwords in other accounts.
    - replax 14y ago
      The problem is, that it prevents you from resetting passwords, too. Which could very well lock you out of your own accounts.
msy 14y ago
I couldn't agree more. Email is essentially the skeleton key to all your other accounts thanks to email reset, even if you use your own domain and don't risk the virtual armageddon of losing both all your mail and your address forever you still risk losing all your mail. Even worse, if your account is hacked you have no effective recourse whatsoever and someone will have access to all your accounts, contacts and email history. I pay for Rackspace mail because when I have a problem, I can call a real phone number and talk to a real human whose interests (company continuing to be paid) are aligned to mine (having a working service).
- k_bx 14y ago
  > I couldn't agree more. Email is essentially the skeleton key to all your other accounts thanks to email reset That's why I decided to get my own domain and use google apps 4 domain. I mean, who knows what happens in 10 years, maybe twitter will became internet-giant and I'll use twitter apps 4 domain then.
- chrishenn 14y ago
  If you use Google Apps with your own domain and make backups of your mail, then you have a very small chance of losing your address and your mail. People hate on Google Apps, but you don't give up control if you follow both these steps (which is easy.) I also don't see any reason why another email provider won't do what people are afraid Google will do.
  - thatjoshguy 14y ago
    > People hate on Google Apps Really? Do you know of any other (free) options out there with comparable options? I really only use the hosted email, but other features are always handy
esbwhat 14y ago
I think about this, but I find it far more likely that my domain goes bad for one reason or another, or my server crashes than that gmail shuts down my account.
- sp332 14y ago
  At least you can just change some DNS records and get your mail working on another server. If your gmail account gets suspended there's no way to get that address back, ever.
  - chmars 14y ago
    That's exactly why I use the paid version of Gmail (as a part of Google Apps) with my own domain name.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
snowwrestler 14y ago
I could die while driving--it happens tens of thousands of times per year--but I still drive places because it is much more convenient than the alternatives. Gmail is very convenient, so I use it despite the very small risk that it will backfire on me.
littletables 14y ago
> I am baffled at how people continue using such a service for something as important as e-mail in 2012, while still being fully aware that their access can be completely cut off at random with no reason or recourse. I am consistently baffled that people with higher than average technical skills assume that everyone is at their level. Many people worry about Gmail/Google cutting them off with no/ or little recourse. The mistake in your assumption that I'm pointing out as an example is that most people don't know how to run their own mail. So, no: I don't think everyone is assuming it won't happen to them. They just don't know what to do, and that's no reason to cast Gmail users as afflicted with the 'psychological law of self exception' (or willfully ignorant).
Groxx 14y ago
Because domains never get seized, of course. Nor are there ever shenanigans with transferring between hosts. I'd bet that Gmail has better uptime and less chance of loss than owning your own domain, for most cases.
duaneb 14y ago
For me-GMail is far and away better than any email and email interface offered. No other spam filter is competitive. Not other interface, web or desktop, is competitive. To me, it's worth the tiny, tiny risk that I might get cut off.

by there 14y ago

icebraining 14y ago

Shit happens with every provider, free or paid; hoping it won't because you pay $400/month for it is foolish. The smart thing is to make sure it doesn't affect you much, by decoupling from the service and turning it into a replaceable commodity as much as possible. That means using your own domain, keeping backups, etc. Then, when shit happens, you can just sign up for another provider and keep going.

there 14y ago
Shit happens, but with nearly every other provider, you can at least talk to someone to find out what happened and get your service restored, or at least get your data.
- icebraining 14y ago
  You can always get your data if you do backups - like you should in any case - so that point is moot. So, you're paying and giving up on a nice webmail client with two-factor auth (how many providers offer this?) for "finding out what happen". I don't think it's a great deal. I'm not a Gmail apologist, by the way - I think there are valid reasons not to use it, like not giving Google a copy of your whole life - but I don't find their policy for when "shit happens" a real problem.
  - replax 14y ago
    You do not have to give GMail up, not sure where you read that... The point was, that exclusively relying on it is not smart, if email is important to you. You can easily use the full benefits of your gmail convenience while still having a fully working fallback. There are even two ways of doing it, one would be to simply forward your email, or using your own domain on google apps.
    - icebraining 14y ago
      You do not have to give GMail up, not sure where you read that... Hmm, from the first post I replied to (by 'there'): I am baffled at how people continue using such a service

sneak 14y ago

> I am baffled at how people continue using such a service for something as important as e-mail in 2012 It's free and works PERFECTLY 99.9%+ of the time, for 99.9%+ of users. The edge case (being shut off) can be easily worked around by having backups and changing your MX records to some other email provider ifwhen you find yourself without service from Google. This risk is acceptable when weighed against "worst-case is 24 hours of no email while I switch providers", and even that probably won't happen. If it does happen to you, it's just a small temporary inconvenience with no lasting effect. "Shit happens, always have regular tested backups (gmail or otherwise)" negates any potential data loss.

jarofgreen 14y ago
Of course that only applies to Google Apps and not @gmail.com addresses. But good point, and I reckon that's another good reason for anyone using email for professional purposes to get their own domain and use it. (One of my pet peeves is seeing businesses advertise a www.mycompany.co.uk website and a bob@aol.com address. Small places do it a lot - why would you buy a domain and not use it fully? Why?)
- crdoconnor 14y ago
  Inertia.

Tooluka 14y ago

What is so important about email in 2012? Tell your contacts your new email, and change restore email option at web resources. Sure, it is a bit uncomfortable and will take 1-2 days to finish, but probability of this scenario is very low.

there 14y ago
It's also the backdoor to nearly every online account you have, by way of 'reset password' links.
- snowwrestler 14y ago
  That would be a problem if your Gmail was hacked. The GP is talking about Google themselves blocking access. I'm not worried that Google will reset my passwords in other accounts.
  - replax 14y ago
    The problem is, that it prevents you from resetting passwords, too. Which could very well lock you out of your own accounts.

msy 14y ago

I couldn't agree more. Email is essentially the skeleton key to all your other accounts thanks to email reset, even if you use your own domain and don't risk the virtual armageddon of losing both all your mail and your address forever you still risk losing all your mail. Even worse, if your account is hacked you have no effective recourse whatsoever and someone will have access to all your accounts, contacts and email history. I pay for Rackspace mail because when I have a problem, I can call a real phone number and talk to a real human whose interests (company continuing to be paid) are aligned to mine (having a working service).

k_bx 14y ago
> I couldn't agree more. Email is essentially the skeleton key to all your other accounts thanks to email reset That's why I decided to get my own domain and use google apps 4 domain. I mean, who knows what happens in 10 years, maybe twitter will became internet-giant and I'll use twitter apps 4 domain then.
chrishenn 14y ago
If you use Google Apps with your own domain and make backups of your mail, then you have a very small chance of losing your address and your mail. People hate on Google Apps, but you don't give up control if you follow both these steps (which is easy.) I also don't see any reason why another email provider won't do what people are afraid Google will do.
- thatjoshguy 14y ago
  > People hate on Google Apps Really? Do you know of any other (free) options out there with comparable options? I really only use the hosted email, but other features are always handy

esbwhat 14y ago

I think about this, but I find it far more likely that my domain goes bad for one reason or another, or my server crashes than that gmail shuts down my account.

sp332 14y ago
At least you can just change some DNS records and get your mail working on another server. If your gmail account gets suspended there's no way to get that address back, ever.
- chmars 14y ago
  That's exactly why I use the paid version of Gmail (as a part of Google Apps) with my own domain name.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

snowwrestler 14y ago

I could die while driving--it happens tens of thousands of times per year--but I still drive places because it is much more convenient than the alternatives. Gmail is very convenient, so I use it despite the very small risk that it will backfire on me.

littletables 14y ago

> I am baffled at how people continue using such a service for something as important as e-mail in 2012, while still being fully aware that their access can be completely cut off at random with no reason or recourse. I am consistently baffled that people with higher than average technical skills assume that everyone is at their level. Many people worry about Gmail/Google cutting them off with no/ or little recourse. The mistake in your assumption that I'm pointing out as an example is that most people don't know how to run their own mail. So, no: I don't think everyone is assuming it won't happen to them. They just don't know what to do, and that's no reason to cast Gmail users as afflicted with the 'psychological law of self exception' (or willfully ignorant).

Groxx 14y ago

Because domains never get seized, of course. Nor are there ever shenanigans with transferring between hosts. I'd bet that Gmail has better uptime and less chance of loss than owning your own domain, for most cases.

duaneb 14y ago

For me-GMail is far and away better than any email and email interface offered. No other spam filter is competitive. Not other interface, web or desktop, is competitive. To me, it's worth the tiny, tiny risk that I might get cut off.