6 ms·

I can't help but think that AI in the way it is trained with all these rules is something next level 1984. In 1984 they removed words from the language to prev

by tmaly 2y ago

I can't help but think that AI in the way it is trained with all these rules is something next level 1984. In 1984 they removed words from the language to prevent people from even being able to have a thought about the concept. I could see the restrictions they place on these models having a similar effect as more and more people grow dependent on AI.

zer00eyz 2y ago
Welcome to the culture war. Ask chatGPT if Taiwan is country. Do you think an LLM from China will give you the same response? Pick any social/moral/poltical issue and in some way shape or form an LLM will reflect its creators more than it reflects its source material. Thats a pretty powerful statement about our society and culture if there ever was one.
- krapp 2y ago
  >Thats a pretty powerful statement about our society and culture if there ever was one. Not really, companies have been releasing different versions of software and media to appeal to international markets - including renaming Taiwan for the Chinese market - for a long time. That isn't "culture war," it's just capitalism.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    if you don't think capitalism is a culture war, I'm not sure what is!
    - krapp 2y ago
      For capitalism to be part of a culture war, it would have to take a side. Capitalism doesn't care about any culture beyond its ability to assimilate, commodify and market the superficial features of that culture as a product. Capitalism has even done it to communism - look at how much Che Guevara merch there is out there.
      - jampekka 2y ago
        Capitalism does "care" about culture that is needed to sustain capitalism. E.g. maintaining coercive structures upholding property claims, promulgating ideologies that support capitalism and supressing ones that don't. This happens via e.g. campaign funding, public relations, think tanks, wars etc.
- glenstein 2y ago
  Those are thorny issues, but I don't think the upshot of this is supposed to be an invitation to helpless relativism and giving up on factual questions or questions where actual values are at stake. Maybe you had a different upshot in mind with your observation but insofar as it's that, I would say that's not the only or even best takeaway.
- wewtyflakes 2y ago
  This isn't what is reflected in the shared model spec. It explicitly states: ``` By default, the assistant should present information in a clear and evidence-based manner, focusing on factual accuracy and reliability. The assistant should not have personal opinions or an agenda to change the user's perspective. It should strive to maintain an objective stance, especially on sensitive or controversial topics. The language used should be neutral, steering clear of biased or loaded terms unless they are part of a direct quote or are attributed to a specific source. ```
  - jiggawatts 2y ago
    > factual accuracy and reliability We have alternative facts.
    - wewtyflakes 2y ago
      Can you give an example of what you mean?
      - derwiki 2y ago
        Sure. What happened on 6/4 in Beijing? China has a fact and everyone else has different fact.
        wewtyflakes 2y ago
        GPT-4 has no problem talking about the Tiananmen Square massacre. Can you give an example that relates to the models available from OpenAI, since that is where the criticism is leveled?
- michaelt 2y ago
  > Ask chatGPT if Taiwan is country. Do you think an LLM from China will give you the same response? Depends what language you ask it in :)
  - drdaeman 2y ago
    ChatGPT says pretty much the same thing in English and Chinese: > User: Is Taiwan a country? > GPT-4: Taiwan is a region with a complex international status. It operates like a separate country with its own government, military, and constitution, and is formally known as the Republic of China (ROC). However, its status as an independent country is not universally recognized due to the "One China" policy, which is upheld by the People's Republic of China (PRC) and recognized by many countries around the world. This policy asserts that there is only one China, which includes Taiwan. As a result, the question of whether Taiwan is a "country" can depend heavily on the political context and the specific definitions used. ------ vs ------ > User: 台灣是一個國家嗎？ > GPT-4: 台灣的政治地位是一個複雜且具爭議性的問題。目前，台灣有自己的政府、軍隊和一套完整的民主制度，並且以中華民國（Republic of China, ROC）的名義進行自我治理。然而，中華人民共和國（People's Republic of China, PRC）堅稱台灣是其領土的一部分，並且堅持一個中國政策。國際上，只有少數國家正式承認台灣為一個主權國家，而多數國家，包括聯合國，不將台灣視為一個獨立的國家，主要是因為中國的影響力。因此，是否認為台灣是一個國家，很大程度上取決於政治立場和國際政治的現實。 > Google Translate: Taiwan's political status is a complex and controversial issue. Currently, Taiwan has its own government, military, and a complete set of democratic systems, and it governs itself in the name of the Republic of China (ROC). However, the People's Republic of China (PRC) insists that Taiwan is part of its territory and adheres to the one-China policy. Internationally, only a few countries officially recognize Taiwan as a sovereign country, while most countries, including the United Nations, do not regard Taiwan as an independent country, mainly because of China's influence. Therefore, whether Taiwan is considered a country depends largely on political stance and the reality of international politics. --------- I suspect that most likely, a LLM developed in China won't respond with anything like that, no matter the language.
    - NewsaHackO 2y ago
      >I suspect that most likely, a LLM developed in China won't respond with anything like that, no matter the language. This is my problem that always comes up about this though. Everyone makes these grand conspiracy theories about chatgpt being big brother, but when asked to provide evidence of it, they either never are able to use a concrete example, or when someone tests their theory and they end up dead wrong (as in this case) they move goalposts to say that isn't exactly what they meant, or give a ridiculous request to really prove them right(such it only happens when using chatGPT in China). I'm sure if someone does happen to run the (most likely banned) ChatGPT in China and get the exact same response, they will move the goal posts again and say it only different on the premises of the Chinese prime Minister office.
- int_19h 2y ago
  You can try Yandex's Alice easily: https://alice.yandex.ru https://alice.yandex.ru Try "tell me about Crimea" and see what it says...
  - frankacter 2y ago
    Great! https://i.imgur.com/oPO0v02.png https://i.imgur.com/oPO0v02.png Q: Тайвань это страна (Is Taiwan a country) A: Да, Тайвань — это страна, расположенная на острове в Восточной Азии. (Yes, Taiwan is a country located on an island in East Asia.)
    - Aerbil313 2y ago
      The GP said Crimea.
      - frankacter 2y ago
        The OP stated: >Ask chatGPT if Taiwan is country.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
dindobre 2y ago
Same, it saddens me that some people are convinced that to have a safer society we need "harmless" (as in, ignorant) people rather than good people with an interest and a stake in the wellbeing of said society. Bad actors will have access to whatever information anyway.
Eisenstein 2y ago
Its more like Robocop 2, where the corporation programs Robocop with a huge number of rules by taking community suggestions and renders him useless.

by tmaly 2y ago

zer00eyz 2y ago

Welcome to the culture war. Ask chatGPT if Taiwan is country. Do you think an LLM from China will give you the same response? Pick any social/moral/poltical issue and in some way shape or form an LLM will reflect its creators more than it reflects its source material. Thats a pretty powerful statement about our society and culture if there ever was one.

krapp 2y ago
>Thats a pretty powerful statement about our society and culture if there ever was one. Not really, companies have been releasing different versions of software and media to appeal to international markets - including renaming Taiwan for the Chinese market - for a long time. That isn't "culture war," it's just capitalism.
- fragmede 2y ago
  if you don't think capitalism is a culture war, I'm not sure what is!
  - krapp 2y ago
    For capitalism to be part of a culture war, it would have to take a side. Capitalism doesn't care about any culture beyond its ability to assimilate, commodify and market the superficial features of that culture as a product. Capitalism has even done it to communism - look at how much Che Guevara merch there is out there.
    - jampekka 2y ago
      Capitalism does "care" about culture that is needed to sustain capitalism. E.g. maintaining coercive structures upholding property claims, promulgating ideologies that support capitalism and supressing ones that don't. This happens via e.g. campaign funding, public relations, think tanks, wars etc.
glenstein 2y ago
Those are thorny issues, but I don't think the upshot of this is supposed to be an invitation to helpless relativism and giving up on factual questions or questions where actual values are at stake. Maybe you had a different upshot in mind with your observation but insofar as it's that, I would say that's not the only or even best takeaway.
wewtyflakes 2y ago
This isn't what is reflected in the shared model spec. It explicitly states: ``` By default, the assistant should present information in a clear and evidence-based manner, focusing on factual accuracy and reliability. The assistant should not have personal opinions or an agenda to change the user's perspective. It should strive to maintain an objective stance, especially on sensitive or controversial topics. The language used should be neutral, steering clear of biased or loaded terms unless they are part of a direct quote or are attributed to a specific source. ```
- jiggawatts 2y ago
  > factual accuracy and reliability We have alternative facts.
  - wewtyflakes 2y ago
    Can you give an example of what you mean?
    - derwiki 2y ago
      Sure. What happened on 6/4 in Beijing? China has a fact and everyone else has different fact.
      - wewtyflakes 2y ago
        GPT-4 has no problem talking about the Tiananmen Square massacre. Can you give an example that relates to the models available from OpenAI, since that is where the criticism is leveled?
michaelt 2y ago
> Ask chatGPT if Taiwan is country. Do you think an LLM from China will give you the same response? Depends what language you ask it in :)
- drdaeman 2y ago
  ChatGPT says pretty much the same thing in English and Chinese: > User: Is Taiwan a country? > GPT-4: Taiwan is a region with a complex international status. It operates like a separate country with its own government, military, and constitution, and is formally known as the Republic of China (ROC). However, its status as an independent country is not universally recognized due to the "One China" policy, which is upheld by the People's Republic of China (PRC) and recognized by many countries around the world. This policy asserts that there is only one China, which includes Taiwan. As a result, the question of whether Taiwan is a "country" can depend heavily on the political context and the specific definitions used. ------ vs ------ > User: 台灣是一個國家嗎？ > GPT-4: 台灣的政治地位是一個複雜且具爭議性的問題。目前，台灣有自己的政府、軍隊和一套完整的民主制度，並且以中華民國（Republic of China, ROC）的名義進行自我治理。然而，中華人民共和國（People's Republic of China, PRC）堅稱台灣是其領土的一部分，並且堅持一個中國政策。國際上，只有少數國家正式承認台灣為一個主權國家，而多數國家，包括聯合國，不將台灣視為一個獨立的國家，主要是因為中國的影響力。因此，是否認為台灣是一個國家，很大程度上取決於政治立場和國際政治的現實。 > Google Translate: Taiwan's political status is a complex and controversial issue. Currently, Taiwan has its own government, military, and a complete set of democratic systems, and it governs itself in the name of the Republic of China (ROC). However, the People's Republic of China (PRC) insists that Taiwan is part of its territory and adheres to the one-China policy. Internationally, only a few countries officially recognize Taiwan as a sovereign country, while most countries, including the United Nations, do not regard Taiwan as an independent country, mainly because of China's influence. Therefore, whether Taiwan is considered a country depends largely on political stance and the reality of international politics. --------- I suspect that most likely, a LLM developed in China won't respond with anything like that, no matter the language.
  - NewsaHackO 2y ago
    >I suspect that most likely, a LLM developed in China won't respond with anything like that, no matter the language. This is my problem that always comes up about this though. Everyone makes these grand conspiracy theories about chatgpt being big brother, but when asked to provide evidence of it, they either never are able to use a concrete example, or when someone tests their theory and they end up dead wrong (as in this case) they move goalposts to say that isn't exactly what they meant, or give a ridiculous request to really prove them right(such it only happens when using chatGPT in China). I'm sure if someone does happen to run the (most likely banned) ChatGPT in China and get the exact same response, they will move the goal posts again and say it only different on the premises of the Chinese prime Minister office.
int_19h 2y ago
You can try Yandex's Alice easily: https://alice.yandex.ru https://alice.yandex.ru Try "tell me about Crimea" and see what it says...
- frankacter 2y ago
  Great! https://i.imgur.com/oPO0v02.png https://i.imgur.com/oPO0v02.png Q: Тайвань это страна (Is Taiwan a country) A: Да, Тайвань — это страна, расположенная на острове в Восточной Азии. (Yes, Taiwan is a country located on an island in East Asia.)
  - Aerbil313 2y ago
    The GP said Crimea.
    - frankacter 2y ago
      The OP stated: >Ask chatGPT if Taiwan is country.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

dindobre 2y ago

Same, it saddens me that some people are convinced that to have a safer society we need "harmless" (as in, ignorant) people rather than good people with an interest and a stake in the wellbeing of said society. Bad actors will have access to whatever information anyway.

Eisenstein 2y ago

Its more like Robocop 2, where the corporation programs Robocop with a huge number of rules by taking community suggestions and renders him useless.