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Wow, that's an impressive number of goal post moves in a single post. I'm talking about the last 25 years, or at least post industrial revolution. If you want

Wow, that's an impressive number of goal post moves in a single post. I'm talking about the last 25 years, or at least post industrial revolution. If you want to debate this in a neutral place, I'm happy to do so, but this isn't exactly a level playing field here on hacker news. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoWibRxD_pY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoWibRxD_pY

morbicer 2y ago
Ignoring hundreds years of history is moving goalposts. Greetings from a country that almost overnight gained 5% of population from Ukraine (very welcomed by me). Ethnic tensions brought some of Europe's worst atrocities, not prosperity. Even in last 25 years, the Balkans are still sore. Post Industrial Revolution we had two world wars and many revolutions. Does your neutral debating place look like Europe's history?
Arnt 2y ago
You're pretty good at moving goalposts yourself. What's particular about the last 25 years? I was at a conference this week where someone spoke about deploying software in the German administration. I translate one of his sentences: "If the northern states install Jitsi, the southern states are going to install Big Blue Button out of pure principle." (Germany is a federal state composed of 16 states.)
seatac76 2y ago
Peace in Europe is a bit of an outlier [1]. The period you refer to is also not a good example given Europe’s peace since WW2 has been more a product of American support and might than European identity. I think Europe was far more ethnically homogenous before WW2 and as the link shows rather violent. So your reasoning is just plain wrong. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe
CogitoCogito 2y ago
I’m pretty sure all Western European countries have been multi-ethnic for the last 25 years. Certainly all I’ve had any experience with (Sweden, Germany, France, UK, maybe more).

morbicer 2y ago

Ignoring hundreds years of history is moving goalposts. Greetings from a country that almost overnight gained 5% of population from Ukraine (very welcomed by me). Ethnic tensions brought some of Europe's worst atrocities, not prosperity. Even in last 25 years, the Balkans are still sore. Post Industrial Revolution we had two world wars and many revolutions. Does your neutral debating place look like Europe's history?

Arnt 2y ago

You're pretty good at moving goalposts yourself. What's particular about the last 25 years? I was at a conference this week where someone spoke about deploying software in the German administration. I translate one of his sentences: "If the northern states install Jitsi, the southern states are going to install Big Blue Button out of pure principle." (Germany is a federal state composed of 16 states.)

seatac76 2y ago

Peace in Europe is a bit of an outlier [1]. The period you refer to is also not a good example given Europe’s peace since WW2 has been more a product of American support and might than European identity. I think Europe was far more ethnically homogenous before WW2 and as the link shows rather violent. So your reasoning is just plain wrong. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe

CogitoCogito 2y ago

I’m pretty sure all Western European countries have been multi-ethnic for the last 25 years. Certainly all I’ve had any experience with (Sweden, Germany, France, UK, maybe more).