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And even more, it was luck and 'fortune' that this is the case now. It's nothing of SBF's doing. They're only able to be made whole because of the market. Cryp

And even more, it was luck and 'fortune' that this is the case now. It's nothing of SBF's doing. They're only able to be made whole because of the market. Crypto could easily have crashed. And then...?

s1artibartfast 3y ago
That's not quite true. Many of the investments did quite good and outperformed alternatives. Investment in anthropic AI would be a good example.
- echoangle 3y ago
  How does that in any way contradict the comment you’re responding to? They’re saying it was luck, saying it was successful does not mean it wasn’t just luck…
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    I was addressing the crypto markets being up portion of the post.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  Great. Many of those investments should never have been able to be made in the first place, because they came through fraudulent actions. Sure, those gains can be used to make investors whole. No, SBF shouldn't get any credit for his "foresight" because they can. There was a point within a couple of months of the Madoff collapse where it was shown that if he'd sent out an email to his investors saying, "Here's the deal, we're freezing. No more deposits. No withdrawals for now", and he'd left everything untouched for four years, he would have been in the black. His efforts wouldn't have been right or net-zero if he'd done that, though.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    >Sure, those gains can be used to make investors whole. No, SBF shouldn't get any credit for his "foresight" because they can. I guess this is the point I was getting at, and I disagree with it. Even if you rob and kill 100 children, it doesn't invalidate the foresight. Foreshight on a specific topic is a sperate topic and specific actions can be judged independently. IF SBF a bad person, but also says the sky is blue, that doesnt make it false.
    - FireBeyond 3y ago
      Why should you get more "credit" for stealing[1] from someone to make an investment that turns out to be good, versus stealing from someone to fund strippers and cocaine? You still took the same amount from the person. [1] For clarity, what SBF did is not, I realize, theft. Just an example.
      - s1artibartfast 3y ago
        I have no idea what you mean by "credit". I'm talking about recognition that someone was able to make a correct prediction or calculation. If someone is a mass murderer but invents cold fusion, You can hold both facts to be true. They made a great scientific discovery and that they were a killer. The facts are not in competition. SBF may have had a good read on the market, and a good eye for investments. He may also be a criminal. Humans have multiple dimensions, so both can be true.
        FireBeyond 3y ago
        The root assumption in some of this thread is that "Well, should SBF get a lighter sentence because his victims can be made whole?" That's the "credit" part. No, he shouldn't. Crypto gains after the seizure of FTX funds are not of his doing, and shouldn't benefit him. Similarly, an argument can be made that he shouldn't necessarily have had access to some of the funds that he used for investment. I'm not denying (nor much caring) that he has made some good investment choices.
        3y ago

s1artibartfast 3y ago

That's not quite true. Many of the investments did quite good and outperformed alternatives. Investment in anthropic AI would be a good example.

echoangle 3y ago
How does that in any way contradict the comment you’re responding to? They’re saying it was luck, saying it was successful does not mean it wasn’t just luck…
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  I was addressing the crypto markets being up portion of the post.
FireBeyond 3y ago
Great. Many of those investments should never have been able to be made in the first place, because they came through fraudulent actions. Sure, those gains can be used to make investors whole. No, SBF shouldn't get any credit for his "foresight" because they can. There was a point within a couple of months of the Madoff collapse where it was shown that if he'd sent out an email to his investors saying, "Here's the deal, we're freezing. No more deposits. No withdrawals for now", and he'd left everything untouched for four years, he would have been in the black. His efforts wouldn't have been right or net-zero if he'd done that, though.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  >Sure, those gains can be used to make investors whole. No, SBF shouldn't get any credit for his "foresight" because they can. I guess this is the point I was getting at, and I disagree with it. Even if you rob and kill 100 children, it doesn't invalidate the foresight. Foreshight on a specific topic is a sperate topic and specific actions can be judged independently. IF SBF a bad person, but also says the sky is blue, that doesnt make it false.
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    Why should you get more "credit" for stealing[1] from someone to make an investment that turns out to be good, versus stealing from someone to fund strippers and cocaine? You still took the same amount from the person. [1] For clarity, what SBF did is not, I realize, theft. Just an example.
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      I have no idea what you mean by "credit". I'm talking about recognition that someone was able to make a correct prediction or calculation. If someone is a mass murderer but invents cold fusion, You can hold both facts to be true. They made a great scientific discovery and that they were a killer. The facts are not in competition. SBF may have had a good read on the market, and a good eye for investments. He may also be a criminal. Humans have multiple dimensions, so both can be true.
      - FireBeyond 3y ago
        The root assumption in some of this thread is that "Well, should SBF get a lighter sentence because his victims can be made whole?" That's the "credit" part. No, he shouldn't. Crypto gains after the seizure of FTX funds are not of his doing, and shouldn't benefit him. Similarly, an argument can be made that he shouldn't necessarily have had access to some of the funds that he used for investment. I'm not denying (nor much caring) that he has made some good investment choices.
        3y ago