7 ms·

Securities fraud again, funny that the guy who "bought Twitter" and shut down free speech ended up getting sued himself due to his own tweet (lying about # of T

by _akhe 2y ago

Securities fraud again, funny that the guy who "bought Twitter" and shut down free speech ended up getting sued himself due to his own tweet (lying about # of Teslas being produced). It's like a bully trying to chase someone but tripping over their shoelace in the first step, love it. On self-driving: For several years the guy has been saying "next month" "next year" it's been like 10+ years at this point. He's a bigger grifter than the Ashes of Creation guy (8 year long Kickstarter MMO that never launched and still collects payments to this day). Wonder why anyone falls for it, feel bad for the gullible.

nullorempty 2y ago
I think Musk is just relaying the promises he receives from ML/AI guys he employes. As far as I know FSD has always been a paid option.
- jajko 2y ago
  This is irrelevant, he is public CEO and has tons of responsibilities. Basically lying to millions of customers in very public manner is a serious issue.
- mikestew 2y ago
  And after years of publicly looking like a lying car salesman, why would he still listen to those employees? I don’t think it’s the line employees that are lying here.
  - lolc 2y ago
    The way I understood it went down for the CEO: 1. Made optimistic claims about future product. 2. Some of the people tasked with implementation disagreed about optimistic claim. 3. Those people got fired for underperforming. 4. All people on the team tasked with implementation agree with optimistic claim. 5. Doubled down on the promise. Repeat every year. I can't see how a CEO could be blamed in this scenario, as clearly they were lied to by their subordinates.
    - _akhe 2y ago
      The CEO is still responsible for their own employees, CEO hired them or directed them to be hired, the CEO (especially this CEO) runs the company. Lying about features or the number of cars being produced etc. can't be limited to mere optimism because they mentioned specific numbers in a public way that were not true. > fired for underperforming The irony, since Musk destroys every brand and product he's ever touched. I've never seen a more polar opposite to the Midas effect at work. It has to be intentional.
      - lolc 2y ago
        Why should a CEO be responsible for their employees if they could instead take a huge pay package which they are obviously entitled to given they have to work around their lying employees? That too was sarcasm :-) You shouldn't be too hard on Musk regarding the "destroys" though: Many people are so incompetent you don't even get to hear about their failures! And others loot professionally without you ever getting to know about it. You have to ignore a lot to state "it has to be intentional".
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - danaris 2y ago
      Satire requires a clarity of purpose and target, lest it be mistaken for, and contribute to, that which it intends to criticize. See also: Poe's Law. Unless you include some clear indicator that you are being sarcastic, posts like this will be seen as fully sincere by many, many people.
      - lolc 2y ago
        True. Sometimes the disconnect bothers me more, sometimes less. There's the hilarity of having fanboys agree with me, which happens sometimes when Tesla's on the menu.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- kube-system 2y ago
  Given what I've read about his management style, I doubt it's like that. Probably more like: Musk: Hey get your shit together I want this done by the end of the year Team: Okay we'll try Musk: Okay we'll plan on that
- adrr 2y ago
  I am sure if he allowed customers to get refunds on FSD, the DOJ wouldn't open a criminal case.
- windexh8er 2y ago
  FSD, in its current iteration, is not what Musk has promised since 2016. FSD is not autonomous or even remotely close to driverless operation as he's claimed it would be. FSD is ultimately a marketing gimmick.
stronglikedan 2y ago
> "bought Twitter" and shut down free speech Citation needed. The platform is more open and vibrant than ever, even going so far as to reinstate free speech that old Twitter shut down at the request of the US government. If anything, he liberated free speech and it shows.
- _akhe 2y ago
  > The platform is more open and vibrant than ever You reveal your lack of experience with Twitter, it's declined a lot. Pretty sure you can't even link to a tweet (a xweet?) from a news article or blog post - they totally killed the platform, not sure where you've been.
  - MisterDizzy 2y ago
    A lot of people are really defensive about this. What's the big deal if X does well? Why are people so personally invested in pretending like Elon didn't do the world a huge service by removing Twitter from the control of possibly the most politically extreme and anti-constitutional subculture in the entire country?
    - _akhe 2y ago
      I can tell by the upvote/downvote dance on the parent comment - people love their celebrities. They get really mad if you talk bad about Elon Musk lol I find it quite pathetic personally. I of course disagree - I don't see the "huge service". Everything from defrauding investors, customers, speaking out of school (saying he's a physicist in the early days), hanging out with Ghislaine Maxwell, stealing then tanking Tesla, destroying Twitter, he's a walking disaster to the point I believe it's intentional.
      - erikerikson 2y ago
        I'm not sure how you'd see the "dance" but anyway... I'd hold the "visited decisive politics" hypothesis at a much higher probability over "celebrity parasocial loyalties" for down and up voting in this case. That said, trying to guess at the motivations of the diverse crowd here is fraught at best.
neglesaks 2y ago
I believe you can summarize Mr. Musk's persona (including his speech and promises made or hinted at) as "unreliable".
slashdev 2y ago
[flagged]
- _akhe 2y ago
  [flagged]
slashdev 2y ago
1) Linking to Tweets still exists, and doesn't require that you're logged in to view them. 2) According to their own released numbers (which you may or may not trust), the usage of the platform is at a record high. 3) They've unbanned many accounts that were previously banned and seem to display a wider tolerance for free speech on the platform. The innovative community notes feature is sometimes helpful to point out misinformation, but misinformation thrives on the platform. 4) They've pushed back on various foriegn governments requesting data on users and requesting users or posts be banned (see the ongoing dispute with Brazil.) It seems more free, not less free.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  > The innovative community notes feature... ... was built and released pre-Musk, when it was called "Birdwatch". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Notes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Notes As for government requests, for every Brazil there's an India. https://theintercept.com/2023/03/28/twitter-modi-india-punjab-amritpal-singh/ https://theintercept.com/2023/03/28/twitter-modi-india-punja... "Twitter accounts from over 100 prominent politicians, activists, and journalists in India and abroad have been blocked in India at the request of the government. On Monday, the account of the BBC News Punjabi was also blocked — the second time in a few months that the Indian government has used Twitter to throttle BBC services in its country." "At the time that Musk took charge of the company, it had a mere 20 percent compliance rate with Indian government requests. Following massive layoffs that reduced 90 percent of Twitter India’s staff, the platform appears to have become far more obliging in the face of government pressure, as its actions to censor its critics now show."
- piva00 2y ago
  > 4) They've pushed back on various foriegn governments requesting data on users and requesting users or posts be banned (see the ongoing dispute with Brazil.) But not in India, nor Turkey, there Twitter under Musk has abided by the requests to silence people. Why is that is a good question, it could be political alignment (Modi and Erdogan are from a different political stance than Lula), it could be because Musk seeks to exploit Brazil's lithium, we can't know but he's been pretty selective in where to pick a fight so we can only assume is due to other circumstances than anything to do with freedom of speech.

by _akhe 2y ago

nullorempty 2y ago

I think Musk is just relaying the promises he receives from ML/AI guys he employes. As far as I know FSD has always been a paid option.

jajko 2y ago
This is irrelevant, he is public CEO and has tons of responsibilities. Basically lying to millions of customers in very public manner is a serious issue.
mikestew 2y ago
And after years of publicly looking like a lying car salesman, why would he still listen to those employees? I don’t think it’s the line employees that are lying here.
- lolc 2y ago
  The way I understood it went down for the CEO: 1. Made optimistic claims about future product. 2. Some of the people tasked with implementation disagreed about optimistic claim. 3. Those people got fired for underperforming. 4. All people on the team tasked with implementation agree with optimistic claim. 5. Doubled down on the promise. Repeat every year. I can't see how a CEO could be blamed in this scenario, as clearly they were lied to by their subordinates.
  - _akhe 2y ago
    The CEO is still responsible for their own employees, CEO hired them or directed them to be hired, the CEO (especially this CEO) runs the company. Lying about features or the number of cars being produced etc. can't be limited to mere optimism because they mentioned specific numbers in a public way that were not true. > fired for underperforming The irony, since Musk destroys every brand and product he's ever touched. I've never seen a more polar opposite to the Midas effect at work. It has to be intentional.
    - lolc 2y ago
      Why should a CEO be responsible for their employees if they could instead take a huge pay package which they are obviously entitled to given they have to work around their lying employees? That too was sarcasm :-) You shouldn't be too hard on Musk regarding the "destroys" though: Many people are so incompetent you don't even get to hear about their failures! And others loot professionally without you ever getting to know about it. You have to ignore a lot to state "it has to be intentional".
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
  - danaris 2y ago
    Satire requires a clarity of purpose and target, lest it be mistaken for, and contribute to, that which it intends to criticize. See also: Poe's Law. Unless you include some clear indicator that you are being sarcastic, posts like this will be seen as fully sincere by many, many people.
    - lolc 2y ago
      True. Sometimes the disconnect bothers me more, sometimes less. There's the hilarity of having fanboys agree with me, which happens sometimes when Tesla's on the menu.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
kube-system 2y ago
Given what I've read about his management style, I doubt it's like that. Probably more like: Musk: Hey get your shit together I want this done by the end of the year Team: Okay we'll try Musk: Okay we'll plan on that
adrr 2y ago
I am sure if he allowed customers to get refunds on FSD, the DOJ wouldn't open a criminal case.
windexh8er 2y ago
FSD, in its current iteration, is not what Musk has promised since 2016. FSD is not autonomous or even remotely close to driverless operation as he's claimed it would be. FSD is ultimately a marketing gimmick.

stronglikedan 2y ago

> "bought Twitter" and shut down free speech Citation needed. The platform is more open and vibrant than ever, even going so far as to reinstate free speech that old Twitter shut down at the request of the US government. If anything, he liberated free speech and it shows.

_akhe 2y ago
> The platform is more open and vibrant than ever You reveal your lack of experience with Twitter, it's declined a lot. Pretty sure you can't even link to a tweet (a xweet?) from a news article or blog post - they totally killed the platform, not sure where you've been.
- MisterDizzy 2y ago
  A lot of people are really defensive about this. What's the big deal if X does well? Why are people so personally invested in pretending like Elon didn't do the world a huge service by removing Twitter from the control of possibly the most politically extreme and anti-constitutional subculture in the entire country?
  - _akhe 2y ago
    I can tell by the upvote/downvote dance on the parent comment - people love their celebrities. They get really mad if you talk bad about Elon Musk lol I find it quite pathetic personally. I of course disagree - I don't see the "huge service". Everything from defrauding investors, customers, speaking out of school (saying he's a physicist in the early days), hanging out with Ghislaine Maxwell, stealing then tanking Tesla, destroying Twitter, he's a walking disaster to the point I believe it's intentional.
    - erikerikson 2y ago
      I'm not sure how you'd see the "dance" but anyway... I'd hold the "visited decisive politics" hypothesis at a much higher probability over "celebrity parasocial loyalties" for down and up voting in this case. That said, trying to guess at the motivations of the diverse crowd here is fraught at best.

neglesaks 2y ago

I believe you can summarize Mr. Musk's persona (including his speech and promises made or hinted at) as "unreliable".

slashdev 2y ago

[flagged]

_akhe 2y ago
[flagged]

slashdev 2y ago

1) Linking to Tweets still exists, and doesn't require that you're logged in to view them. 2) According to their own released numbers (which you may or may not trust), the usage of the platform is at a record high. 3) They've unbanned many accounts that were previously banned and seem to display a wider tolerance for free speech on the platform. The innovative community notes feature is sometimes helpful to point out misinformation, but misinformation thrives on the platform. 4) They've pushed back on various foriegn governments requesting data on users and requesting users or posts be banned (see the ongoing dispute with Brazil.) It seems more free, not less free.

ceejayoz 2y ago
> The innovative community notes feature... ... was built and released pre-Musk, when it was called "Birdwatch". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Notes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Notes As for government requests, for every Brazil there's an India. https://theintercept.com/2023/03/28/twitter-modi-india-punjab-amritpal-singh/ https://theintercept.com/2023/03/28/twitter-modi-india-punja... "Twitter accounts from over 100 prominent politicians, activists, and journalists in India and abroad have been blocked in India at the request of the government. On Monday, the account of the BBC News Punjabi was also blocked — the second time in a few months that the Indian government has used Twitter to throttle BBC services in its country." "At the time that Musk took charge of the company, it had a mere 20 percent compliance rate with Indian government requests. Following massive layoffs that reduced 90 percent of Twitter India’s staff, the platform appears to have become far more obliging in the face of government pressure, as its actions to censor its critics now show."
piva00 2y ago
> 4) They've pushed back on various foriegn governments requesting data on users and requesting users or posts be banned (see the ongoing dispute with Brazil.) But not in India, nor Turkey, there Twitter under Musk has abided by the requests to silence people. Why is that is a good question, it could be political alignment (Modi and Erdogan are from a different political stance than Lula), it could be because Musk seeks to exploit Brazil's lithium, we can't know but he's been pretty selective in where to pick a fight so we can only assume is due to other circumstances than anything to do with freedom of speech.