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I respect the work, but the samples look a lot like Symfony2, which has a huge community behind it. Sf2 has a learning curve but I'm not sure what problem Lara

I respect the work, but the samples look a lot like Symfony2, which has a huge community behind it. Sf2 has a learning curve but I'm not sure what problem Laravel solves that Sf2 (or its simplified kid brother Silex) doesn't already solve.

lkrubner 14y ago
I agree. If someone wants to launch a new PHP framework in 2012, they should at least talk about some of the leading PHP frameworks (Symfony, CodeIgniter, CakePHP, etc) and say why those frameworks are not adequate. Optionally, one could include a discussion of why one should use PHP, but I realize there is convenience and brevity to be gained from simply assuming you are talking to an audience that is already sold on PHP, rather than Java or Ruby or Python or Clojure.
- ams6110 14y ago
  Do all Java, Ruby, and Python frameworks include a discussion of why one should use those languages? Seems to me that when you're evaluating frameworks, the language decision is probably already made.
- rmATinnovafy 14y ago
  Why not PHP?
  - __mark__ 14y ago
    http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/ http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-de...
  - lkrubner 14y ago
    Imagine the conversation we would have if I hit the reply button and wrote: Why PHP? Seriously, it does not take the conversation forward.
    - rmATinnovafy 14y ago
      I know its not perfect, and has some little loved features. But for me a language is a tool. And tools are meant for specific jobs. Like I wouldn't use a phillips head screwdriver where a set of pliers is needed. If php is to advance we should welcome all tools that evolve it.
      - antihero 14y ago
        Or ditch it already and write Python/Ruby.
        rmATinnovafy 14y ago
        Why don't we ditch Python/Ruby and just go with CLISP?
        antihero 14y ago
        Because Python/Ruby are decent languages, CLISP isn't objectively better, it's just different.
corford 14y ago
I came away thinking the same. Also, Laravel seems (from first glance at least) to lack the modular design approach of Symfony2 i.e. with Laravel you either take the whole framework or nothing at all - you can't selectively pick which modules you want. Another thing I missed was Silex's approach of using a minimal core and then relying on third party providers for functionality rather than re-inventing the wheel (e.g. Doctrine for db work, Monolog for logging and Twig for templating).
jfaucett 14y ago
ditto. What problem does it solve? None, we don't need another framework! What we need is something that would save us PHP programmers more time than the MVC/Frameworks that are out there already do. How about a sleek CMS on top of Sf2 built on the bundles concept (it would have to be:), or a Magento replacement that integrates with the CMS and Sf2. That would get my attention.
- hadem 14y ago
  I think you are missing the point. And if we all said such negative comments about something new we wouldn't have made much progress in moving forward. So it solves some problems that have already been solved. It is doing them in new ways and at the very least it is getting people interested and talking about PHP and web development. I am sick of working with CakePHP! I am sick of trying to work with old frameworks that still want to support PHP4! Looking at this framework, gave me new interest in PHP, gave me new interest in the new features offered in recent versions of PHP. That and keep in mind there are many projects that don't need something like Symfony or Zend. A lot of projects that is the same thing as using a sledge hammer for a thumbtack. Something like Laravel gives me the tools to get a small project up and running quickly without having to do a lot of the mindless/repetitive tasks we all have to do with new projects. Lastly, your "solution" that gets your attention is nothing new. It is not web development, it is installing software via a web interface. So you say what does it solve when really you are just asking for another e-commerce and CMS solution. Hmm, that hasn't been done thousands of times before...
lkrubner 14y ago
I think a lot of people, even those who used/use some variation of 1.x, are unaware of the emergence of some really good bundles. I'll post two links about the Sonata bundles: http://www.chrisshennan.com/2012/02/16/symfony2-and-sonata-project-bundles/#.T8J2oJ9YtXc http://www.chrisshennan.com/2012/02/16/symfony2-and-sonata-p... http://sonata-project.org/bundles/ http://sonata-project.org/bundles/ For those who don't know what a Symfony bundle is, you can think of them as an attempt to bring something like Rails Engines to the land of PHP.
crynobone 14y ago
Not a micro-framework but with small learning-curve. IMHO that is a big win.

lkrubner 14y ago

I agree. If someone wants to launch a new PHP framework in 2012, they should at least talk about some of the leading PHP frameworks (Symfony, CodeIgniter, CakePHP, etc) and say why those frameworks are not adequate. Optionally, one could include a discussion of why one should use PHP, but I realize there is convenience and brevity to be gained from simply assuming you are talking to an audience that is already sold on PHP, rather than Java or Ruby or Python or Clojure.

ams6110 14y ago
Do all Java, Ruby, and Python frameworks include a discussion of why one should use those languages? Seems to me that when you're evaluating frameworks, the language decision is probably already made.
rmATinnovafy 14y ago
Why not PHP?
- __mark__ 14y ago
  http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/ http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-de...
- lkrubner 14y ago
  Imagine the conversation we would have if I hit the reply button and wrote: Why PHP? Seriously, it does not take the conversation forward.
  - rmATinnovafy 14y ago
    I know its not perfect, and has some little loved features. But for me a language is a tool. And tools are meant for specific jobs. Like I wouldn't use a phillips head screwdriver where a set of pliers is needed. If php is to advance we should welcome all tools that evolve it.
    - antihero 14y ago
      Or ditch it already and write Python/Ruby.
      - rmATinnovafy 14y ago
        Why don't we ditch Python/Ruby and just go with CLISP?
        antihero 14y ago
        Because Python/Ruby are decent languages, CLISP isn't objectively better, it's just different.

corford 14y ago

I came away thinking the same. Also, Laravel seems (from first glance at least) to lack the modular design approach of Symfony2 i.e. with Laravel you either take the whole framework or nothing at all - you can't selectively pick which modules you want. Another thing I missed was Silex's approach of using a minimal core and then relying on third party providers for functionality rather than re-inventing the wheel (e.g. Doctrine for db work, Monolog for logging and Twig for templating).

jfaucett 14y ago

ditto. What problem does it solve? None, we don't need another framework! What we need is something that would save us PHP programmers more time than the MVC/Frameworks that are out there already do. How about a sleek CMS on top of Sf2 built on the bundles concept (it would have to be:), or a Magento replacement that integrates with the CMS and Sf2. That would get my attention.

hadem 14y ago
I think you are missing the point. And if we all said such negative comments about something new we wouldn't have made much progress in moving forward. So it solves some problems that have already been solved. It is doing them in new ways and at the very least it is getting people interested and talking about PHP and web development. I am sick of working with CakePHP! I am sick of trying to work with old frameworks that still want to support PHP4! Looking at this framework, gave me new interest in PHP, gave me new interest in the new features offered in recent versions of PHP. That and keep in mind there are many projects that don't need something like Symfony or Zend. A lot of projects that is the same thing as using a sledge hammer for a thumbtack. Something like Laravel gives me the tools to get a small project up and running quickly without having to do a lot of the mindless/repetitive tasks we all have to do with new projects. Lastly, your "solution" that gets your attention is nothing new. It is not web development, it is installing software via a web interface. So you say what does it solve when really you are just asking for another e-commerce and CMS solution. Hmm, that hasn't been done thousands of times before...

lkrubner 14y ago

I think a lot of people, even those who used/use some variation of 1.x, are unaware of the emergence of some really good bundles. I'll post two links about the Sonata bundles: http://www.chrisshennan.com/2012/02/16/symfony2-and-sonata-project-bundles/#.T8J2oJ9YtXc http://www.chrisshennan.com/2012/02/16/symfony2-and-sonata-p... http://sonata-project.org/bundles/ http://sonata-project.org/bundles/ For those who don't know what a Symfony bundle is, you can think of them as an attempt to bring something like Rails Engines to the land of PHP.

crynobone 14y ago

Not a micro-framework but with small learning-curve. IMHO that is a big win.