4 ms·

$331,381.55 in 2024 dollars. If only he'd invested it in the stock market rather than half-assed ponzi schemes he could have been reasonably comfortable.

by rwmj 3y ago

somenameforme 3y ago
The whole point of money is being able to do what you enjoy. And it's clear he absolutely loved these shenanigans. Losing it, regaining it, and finding something new - that was what he wanted and seemingly spent his entire life doing. The journey was the destination. You can see this everywhere in all aspects of life as well. Jeff Bezos, and countless other billionaires, could easily retire tomorrow and have enough money to do essentially anything they could even dream of. So what do they do? Continue to work 60 hours a week doing pretty much the same stuff they were doing on their way up. Because they love it. On the other end of the spectrum countless rappers have managed to break out of a life of crime to become successful and make millions. Yet many end up right back in that life of crime. It's because they enjoy the lifestyle. They don't want to just be comfortable, but to actually do what they enjoy.
- rwmj 3y ago
  Did losing half his net worth in a robbery contribute to his enjoyment of life? From his subsequent behaviour towards his girlfriend, it seems like it didn't.
- HumblyTossed 3y ago
  > Continue to work 60 hours a week I do not, even for an instant, believe they pull those kinds of numbers.
  - somenameforme 3y ago
    Time reviewed a study based on some 256 CEOs here. [1] The average work week ended up at just over 58 hours. Here [2] is a post from Forbes where they surveyed 50 billionaires on how many hours they work per week. For 60% it was at least 60 hours. Imagine tomorrow - you finally 'made it'. You have $15k/month guaranteed income, forever. It's not like that's a destination, because at that point you need to decide in a point for your life. Relentless hedonism is really awesome for like a year or two, but even that becomes rapidly unfulfilling. So... what now? For some it's work, others go for religion, others just end up playing 'make number go up' with their earnings, and so on. But the point is you need to find something to do with your life. "Comfort" is a false destination, because it's not a destination - once you reach it, you just immediately start going down a new path that can even take you further away from where you were - as in this guy's case. [1] - https://time.com/4076563/ceos-productivity/ https://time.com/4076563/ceos-productivity/ [2] - https://twitter.com/forbes/status/498274992694784000 https://twitter.com/forbes/status/498274992694784000
    - rwmj 3y ago
      I'm surprised no one has replaced the entire Wikipedia page on Sampling Bias with a link to this study that only looked at the work habits of CEOs.
      - bluGill 3y ago
        This would only be sampling bias if someone made the claim that working 58 hours/week is what you need to become a rich CEO. That claim is false, but a survey of CEOs only would make it seem true. (there are lots of people working 60+ hours/week in low end jobs that will never make CEO - as any sample would tell you) The claims here though are CEOs generally work more than average despite their high income where they seem to have plenty of money. That claim checks out.
        antifa 3y ago
        It might have more to do with claiming to work more than doing actual work. For example, musk claims he works 80 hrs/wk, but obviously 60 of those hours are goofing off on Twitter.
    - HumblyTossed 3y ago
      > Surprisingly though, meetings aren’t what take up most of CEOs’ time. For 6.55 hours per day, the executives say they actually work alone, strategizing, planning, and reviewing reports. Yeah.... Or, like Elmo, they spend 20 hours a day on Twitter(x).
- paxys 3y ago
  If what you truly enjoy is stealing from others then it's time to reevaluate your life.
- fuzzfactor 3y ago
  >The whole point of money is being able to do what you enjoy. That's a very common and reasonable way of putting it, otherwise it wouldn't be so popular. An antithetical approach that is completely compatible without conflict, would be to say the whole point of money is to have some financial results from doing what you enjoy. It's fully possible to achieve the same monetary reward by performing the same tasks, under either scenario, even though the attitudes can seem mutually exclusive, there is a shared basis for coexistence.
mrb 3y ago
If he had invested the prize in the S&P500, in order to be able to live from the investment income for 50 years (Michael was aged 33 when he won), he would have been able to withdraw only about $10,040 per year, in 1982 dollars, which is equivalent to $32,500 in today's dollars, which is a minimum wage salary. I don't think this is "reasonably comfortable". The CAGR of the S&P 500, including dividends reinvested, inflation-adjusted, was about 9% in the 1982-2024 period [1], and my Python script below shows that starting with $110k, with this 9% CAGR, he would run out of money in about 50 years: t = 110e3 for y in range(50): t *= 1.09 t -= 10040 print(1982 + y, round(t)) Output: 1982 $109850 1983 $109687 1984 $109508 1985 $109314 1986 $109102 1987 $108871 1988 $108620 1989 $108346 1990 $108047 1991 $107721 1992 $107366 1993 $106979 1994 $106557 1995 $106097 1996 $105596 1997 $105049 1998 $104454 1999 $103805 2000 $103097 2001 $102326 2002 $101485 2003 $100569 2004 $99570 2005 $98482 2006 $97295 2007 $96001 2008 $94592 2009 $93055 2010 $91380 2011 $89554 2012 $87564 2013 $85394 2014 $83030 2015 $80453 2016 $77643 2017 $74581 2018 $71244 2019 $67606 2020 $63640 2021 $59318 2022 $54606 2023 $49471 2024 $43873 2025 $37772 2026 $31121 2027 $23872 2028 $15971 2029 $7358 2030 $-2030 # no more money 2031 $-12263 (But actually he died early in 1999, so if he had know that he could have spent more yearly...) [1] https://dqydj.com/sp-500-return-calculator/ https://dqydj.com/sp-500-return-calculator/

$331,381.55 in 2024 dollars. If only he'd invested it in the stock market rather than half-assed ponzi schemes he could have been reasonably comfortable.

by rwmj 3y ago

$331,381.55 in 2024 dollars. If only he'd invested it in the stock market rather than half-assed ponzi schemes he could have been reasonably comfortable.

somenameforme 3y ago

The whole point of money is being able to do what you enjoy. And it's clear he absolutely loved these shenanigans. Losing it, regaining it, and finding something new - that was what he wanted and seemingly spent his entire life doing. The journey was the destination. You can see this everywhere in all aspects of life as well. Jeff Bezos, and countless other billionaires, could easily retire tomorrow and have enough money to do essentially anything they could even dream of. So what do they do? Continue to work 60 hours a week doing pretty much the same stuff they were doing on their way up. Because they love it. On the other end of the spectrum countless rappers have managed to break out of a life of crime to become successful and make millions. Yet many end up right back in that life of crime. It's because they enjoy the lifestyle. They don't want to just be comfortable, but to actually do what they enjoy.

rwmj 3y ago
Did losing half his net worth in a robbery contribute to his enjoyment of life? From his subsequent behaviour towards his girlfriend, it seems like it didn't.
HumblyTossed 3y ago
> Continue to work 60 hours a week I do not, even for an instant, believe they pull those kinds of numbers.
- somenameforme 3y ago
  Time reviewed a study based on some 256 CEOs here. [1] The average work week ended up at just over 58 hours. Here [2] is a post from Forbes where they surveyed 50 billionaires on how many hours they work per week. For 60% it was at least 60 hours. Imagine tomorrow - you finally 'made it'. You have $15k/month guaranteed income, forever. It's not like that's a destination, because at that point you need to decide in a point for your life. Relentless hedonism is really awesome for like a year or two, but even that becomes rapidly unfulfilling. So... what now? For some it's work, others go for religion, others just end up playing 'make number go up' with their earnings, and so on. But the point is you need to find something to do with your life. "Comfort" is a false destination, because it's not a destination - once you reach it, you just immediately start going down a new path that can even take you further away from where you were - as in this guy's case. [1] - https://time.com/4076563/ceos-productivity/ https://time.com/4076563/ceos-productivity/ [2] - https://twitter.com/forbes/status/498274992694784000 https://twitter.com/forbes/status/498274992694784000
  - rwmj 3y ago
    I'm surprised no one has replaced the entire Wikipedia page on Sampling Bias with a link to this study that only looked at the work habits of CEOs.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      This would only be sampling bias if someone made the claim that working 58 hours/week is what you need to become a rich CEO. That claim is false, but a survey of CEOs only would make it seem true. (there are lots of people working 60+ hours/week in low end jobs that will never make CEO - as any sample would tell you) The claims here though are CEOs generally work more than average despite their high income where they seem to have plenty of money. That claim checks out.
      - antifa 3y ago
        It might have more to do with claiming to work more than doing actual work. For example, musk claims he works 80 hrs/wk, but obviously 60 of those hours are goofing off on Twitter.
  - HumblyTossed 3y ago
    > Surprisingly though, meetings aren’t what take up most of CEOs’ time. For 6.55 hours per day, the executives say they actually work alone, strategizing, planning, and reviewing reports. Yeah.... Or, like Elmo, they spend 20 hours a day on Twitter(x).
paxys 3y ago
If what you truly enjoy is stealing from others then it's time to reevaluate your life.
fuzzfactor 3y ago
>The whole point of money is being able to do what you enjoy. That's a very common and reasonable way of putting it, otherwise it wouldn't be so popular. An antithetical approach that is completely compatible without conflict, would be to say the whole point of money is to have some financial results from doing what you enjoy. It's fully possible to achieve the same monetary reward by performing the same tasks, under either scenario, even though the attitudes can seem mutually exclusive, there is a shared basis for coexistence.

mrb 3y ago

If he had invested the prize in the S&P500, in order to be able to live from the investment income for 50 years (Michael was aged 33 when he won), he would have been able to withdraw only about $10,040 per year, in 1982 dollars, which is equivalent to $32,500 in today's dollars, which is a minimum wage salary. I don't think this is "reasonably comfortable". The CAGR of the S&P 500, including dividends reinvested, inflation-adjusted, was about 9% in the 1982-2024 period [1], and my Python script below shows that starting with $110k, with this 9% CAGR, he would run out of money in about 50 years: t = 110e3 for y in range(50): t *= 1.09 t -= 10040 print(1982 + y, round(t)) Output: 1982 $109850 1983 $109687 1984 $109508 1985 $109314 1986 $109102 1987 $108871 1988 $108620 1989 $108346 1990 $108047 1991 $107721 1992 $107366 1993 $106979 1994 $106557 1995 $106097 1996 $105596 1997 $105049 1998 $104454 1999 $103805 2000 $103097 2001 $102326 2002 $101485 2003 $100569 2004 $99570 2005 $98482 2006 $97295 2007 $96001 2008 $94592 2009 $93055 2010 $91380 2011 $89554 2012 $87564 2013 $85394 2014 $83030 2015 $80453 2016 $77643 2017 $74581 2018 $71244 2019 $67606 2020 $63640 2021 $59318 2022 $54606 2023 $49471 2024 $43873 2025 $37772 2026 $31121 2027 $23872 2028 $15971 2029 $7358 2030 $-2030 # no more money 2031 $-12263 (But actually he died early in 1999, so if he had know that he could have spent more yearly...) [1] https://dqydj.com/sp-500-return-calculator/ https://dqydj.com/sp-500-return-calculator/