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> Engineers use MacBook pros because it’s the best built laptop, the best screen, arguably the best OS and most importantly - they’re not the ones paying for th

by jwr 2y ago

> Engineers use MacBook pros because it’s the best built laptop, the best screen, arguably the best OS and most importantly - they’re not the ones paying for them. I am the one paying for my MacBook Pro, because my company is a self-funded business. I run my entire business on this machine and I love it. I always buy the fastest CPU possible, although I don't max out the RAM and SSD. Amusingly enough, I talked to someone recently about compilation speeds and that person asked my why I don't compile my software (Clojure and ClojureScript) on "powerful cloud servers". Well, according to Geekbench, which always correlates very well with my compilation speeds, there are very few CPUs out there that can beat my M3 Max, and those aren't easily rentable as bare-metal cloud servers. Any virtual server will be slower. So please, don't repeat the "MacBooks are for spoiled people who don't have to pay for them" trope. There are people for whom this is simply the best machine for the job at hand. Incidentally, I checked my financials: a 16" MBP with M3 and 64GB RAM, amortized over 18 months (very short!) comes out to around $150/month. That is not expensive at all for your main development machine that you run your business on!

kaliszad 2y ago
As a Clojure/ ClojureScript developer myself I just wonder what You do that compilation is such an important part of Your workflow and at the same time don't need as much RAM as possible? Yes, the MacBook Pro isn't bad at all for Clojure(Script) development. I was pretty angry that the Lenovo ThinkPad T14 Gen3 has a full channel of soldered RAM and just a single slot for expansion since I really use a lot of RAM and would prefer to go with 64 GB full dual-channel and not a hybrid 48 GB with 32 GB being dual-channel and 16 GB being single channel. (Yes, it does actually work.) Most builds that I do are done asynchronously using GitHub Actions or similar. Yes, it does take some time but the build+deploy isn't that time sensitive.
traceroute66 2y ago
> comes out to around $150/month. Which, incidentally, is probably about 10x less than you would spend compiling your software on "powerful cloud servers". :-)
- renonce 2y ago
  For a fair comparison, what about comparing against the cheapest "power cloud server"? I mean Hetzner has a reputation for renting bare metal servers at the cheapest price in the market. Try AX102 which has very close performance to a M3 Max (CPU only): https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ax/ https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ax/ While the OP's solution has a lot of advantages like being able to own the device and including GPU, but at least we do have cloud servers with comparable costs available.
  - DenseComet 2y ago
    I tried a lot to use remote servers for development when I had an Intel MacBook and I found the experience to always be so frustrating that I upgraded to the M series. Have the tools gotten any better or is vscode remote containers still the standard?
    - jhurliman 2y ago
      vscode remote containers are still the standard, but I find them very usable nowadays. My setup is a MBP M2 that I use to remote into a Windows WSL setup at home, a Linux desktop at work, and various servers. Nesting remote SSH + remote Docker works seamlessly, that was previously a major headache.
    - jwr 2y ago
      I did use them several years ago, for Clojure and ClojureScript development. Docker and docker-compose were my main tools, with syncthing helping synchronize source code in real time, Emacs as the editor. Everything worked quite well, but was never as easy and smooth as just running everything locally.
  - jwr 2y ago
    Indeed! That server is very close to my M3 Max. I stand slightly corrected :) Worth noting: the monthly cost is close to my 18-month amortized cost.
- deleted 2y ago
dizhn 2y ago
In your case it makes sense to get the most performant machine you can get even if it means you're paying a ton more for marginal gains. This is not usually true for the general public.
- alemanek 2y ago
  General public can buy a M1 MacBook Air for $799 if they need a laptop at all. An air will serve them well for a long time.
  - veunes 2y ago
    Love my Air...
yatz 2y ago
In addition to the hardware, the OSX software is so much better with flawless speed, productivity, and multitasking with gestures. Try doing the desktop switching on the windows. On a flip note, I would gladly use the cloud if internet speeds and latency comes down to negligible level - we developer are an impatient lot.

by jwr 2y ago

kaliszad 2y ago

As a Clojure/ ClojureScript developer myself I just wonder what You do that compilation is such an important part of Your workflow and at the same time don't need as much RAM as possible? Yes, the MacBook Pro isn't bad at all for Clojure(Script) development. I was pretty angry that the Lenovo ThinkPad T14 Gen3 has a full channel of soldered RAM and just a single slot for expansion since I really use a lot of RAM and would prefer to go with 64 GB full dual-channel and not a hybrid 48 GB with 32 GB being dual-channel and 16 GB being single channel. (Yes, it does actually work.) Most builds that I do are done asynchronously using GitHub Actions or similar. Yes, it does take some time but the build+deploy isn't that time sensitive.

traceroute66 2y ago

> comes out to around $150/month. Which, incidentally, is probably about 10x less than you would spend compiling your software on "powerful cloud servers". :-)

renonce 2y ago
For a fair comparison, what about comparing against the cheapest "power cloud server"? I mean Hetzner has a reputation for renting bare metal servers at the cheapest price in the market. Try AX102 which has very close performance to a M3 Max (CPU only): https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ax/ https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ax/ While the OP's solution has a lot of advantages like being able to own the device and including GPU, but at least we do have cloud servers with comparable costs available.
- DenseComet 2y ago
  I tried a lot to use remote servers for development when I had an Intel MacBook and I found the experience to always be so frustrating that I upgraded to the M series. Have the tools gotten any better or is vscode remote containers still the standard?
  - jhurliman 2y ago
    vscode remote containers are still the standard, but I find them very usable nowadays. My setup is a MBP M2 that I use to remote into a Windows WSL setup at home, a Linux desktop at work, and various servers. Nesting remote SSH + remote Docker works seamlessly, that was previously a major headache.
  - jwr 2y ago
    I did use them several years ago, for Clojure and ClojureScript development. Docker and docker-compose were my main tools, with syncthing helping synchronize source code in real time, Emacs as the editor. Everything worked quite well, but was never as easy and smooth as just running everything locally.
- jwr 2y ago
  Indeed! That server is very close to my M3 Max. I stand slightly corrected :) Worth noting: the monthly cost is close to my 18-month amortized cost.
deleted 2y ago

dizhn 2y ago

In your case it makes sense to get the most performant machine you can get even if it means you're paying a ton more for marginal gains. This is not usually true for the general public.

alemanek 2y ago
General public can buy a M1 MacBook Air for $799 if they need a laptop at all. An air will serve them well for a long time.
- veunes 2y ago
  Love my Air...

yatz 2y ago

In addition to the hardware, the OSX software is so much better with flawless speed, productivity, and multitasking with gestures. Try doing the desktop switching on the windows. On a flip note, I would gladly use the cloud if internet speeds and latency comes down to negligible level - we developer are an impatient lot.