5 ms·

Mitt Romney Reveals Twisted Reason Why Congress Moved to Ban TikTok

21 points by xnhbx 2y ago

jjgreen 2y ago
Some wonder why there was such overwhelming support for us to shut down potentially TikTok or other entities of that nature. If you look at the postings on TikTok and the number of mentions of Palestinians relative to other social media sites, it’s overwhelmingly so among TikTok broadcasts. So I’d note that’s of real interest, and the President will get the chance to make action in that regard
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
saltserv 2y ago
[dead]
qp11 2y ago
This is old news - https://www.voanews.com/a/efforts-by-us-to-crack-down-on-tiktok-spark-backlash-against-israel/7535577.html https://www.voanews.com/a/efforts-by-us-to-crack-down-on-tik... Has to be seen in larger context of the Attention Wars. There is now more content then eyeballs by a massive margin. The UN report on the Attention Economy quotes a study that says less than 0.5% of content produced is being consumed by a human. In such a abnormal state of surplus Content, how does anyone get noticed? There are just 2 options - 1. Spend more on ads. (This is something all politicians know cause the winner of every single American Presidential Election is the candidate who spent more on Ads on Broadcast Media. Atleast up until Trump+Zuckerbergs algos allowed a different path to Attention Capture. The algos were quickly rectified. See Twitter Files from Matt Taibbi. So when the elites talk about democracy and tell you to vote ask them to pay you instead of the lobbyists, politicians and zuck) 2. Control what the Platforms do. If the platforms dont bend make them. See Modi in India. Bigger question than Tik Tok bans is why are we producing so much Content? If there are more producers than consumers. And the producers are causing every growing content growth, and all locked in an arms race for non growing attention what is the Purpose of such a system?
- kylebenzle 2y ago
  > what is the Purpose of such a system? It makes money, duh.
janalsncm 2y ago
I guess his implication is that TikTok is intentionally distorting opinion. But how do we know public opinion on TikTok isn’t what the baseline would be, and the rest of US public opinion isn’t the one being intentionally influenced? I am for the divestiture (US media should be controlled by Americans) but it does raise questions.
- blagie 2y ago
  > I am for the divestiture (US media should be controlled by Americans) but it does raise questions. Why? And is this universal? Should French media be controlled by the French? Chinese media by the Chinese? North Korean by the North Koreans? That's a genuine question (and non-OP can give their own responses). I have rather complex opinions, not strongly held, and I'd love to hear from others.
  - CogitoCogito 2y ago
    I wouldn’t go so far as to say that US media should be owned by Americans, but I do wonder if it makes sense to allow foreigners to have ownership if their own countries don’t allow the same kinds of rights as well. Bringing China up, I don’t really see why Chinese media should be allowed more access to American markets when they don’t reciprocate.
    - kylebenzle 2y ago
      So the law would be that any country that has another country's media stations operating with in their country will then be allowed to have their media organizations operating in the first country? That sounds complicated and schizophrenic. So every country has to maintain a list of countries that have some sort of quasi-official news regulation agency that says who's a news agency and not are not and where they're operating? Just the idea sounds too dumb to believe.
      - mogiddy55 2y ago
        Yes, there typically has to be reciprocity; this is what closed off the world's media throughout the entire duration of the Cold War, and is the paradigm under which China (and Russia to an extent) still operate. It's why RFERL, originally a pro-American propaganda radio broadcast targeted at Eastern Bloc and communist countries, was created, and why you could go to jail for listening to it in the USSR. Actually, currently, you still can (in Russia under their wartime laws). It wasn't and still isn't legal to run an unregulated foreign-owned news bureau in basically any country. Social media is enmeshed with current events / news so it falls under like jurisdiction. "Schizo" applies here as there is a definite schism between countries in the world and always has been. Try operating a HAM radio around Florida/Cuba and you'll find the southern neighbor has jammed (I believe) most radio news coming from the US.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
TikTok is a black box and so it is not really possible for people on the outside to know what it does behind the scenes. The lack of transparency and the ties to the CCP are indeed a national security threat to other countries. I recall reading analysis that showed very skewed representation of different keywords on TikTok compared to other platforms. I have trouble believing that this is actually organic and balanced. I think it is much more likely that it is a result of manipulation - how TikTok increases or reduces certain views. China has a tool that’s perfect to create political chaos in rival countries - I doubt they would pass up the opportunity to abuse it. I also find it suspicious that ByteDance would rather shut down TikTok than allow its sale (https://www.reuters.com/technology/bytedance-prefers-tiktok-shutdown-us-if-legal-options-fail-sources-say-2024-04-25/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/bytedance-prefers-tiktok-...). Let’s also not forget - China does not allow American social media to operate in their country. When trade is allowed, access to their market is highly controlled - for example Tesla being forced to use Baidu for mapping. TikTok can and should be banned on the grounds of this free trade issue, leaving aside privacy and national security problems.
- kylebenzle 2y ago
  The New York times is a black box. And this lack of transparency along with its connection to the US government are indeed a national security threat to other countries...
- zaphirplane 2y ago
  You are kidding, Facebook, twitter and google are black boxes. ChatGPT (as a a generic name for LLM) is another level of black box. Me thinks you picked the wrong point to build an argument
- nextaccountic 2y ago
  Every social media app is a black box. Some has shown to maliciously manipulate the public, like Facebook with its emotional manipulation
mmaniac 2y ago
It's helpful that Romney came out and said it so brazenly. There's been a lot of incredulity over this idea until now.
- krapp 2y ago
  There still will be. I believe this narrative is part a more general effort to normalize the suspicion that all "leftist" or "progressive" ideology among American youth, especially any rejection of capitalism, religion, or American imperialism, is the result of communist propaganda and mind control. The end goal being the government exercising direct censorship and control over the American internet to preserve "free speech" from pernicious foreign influence.
  - mmaniac 2y ago
    I agree, but I would characterise it more generally than that. It's not specifically leftism, but any rejection of the theory that underpin the present power structure. For example, right wing populism which takes the form of isolationism (in America) or anti-Atlanticism (in Europe) must be Russian astroturfing.

21 points by xnhbx 2y ago

Some wonder why there was such overwhelming support for us to shut down potentially TikTok or other entities of that nature. If you look at the postings on TikTok and the number of mentions of Palestinians relative to other social media sites, it’s overwhelmingly so among TikTok broadcasts. So I’d note that’s of real interest, and the President will get the chance to make action in that regard

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

saltserv 2y ago

[dead]

qp11 2y ago

This is old news - https://www.voanews.com/a/efforts-by-us-to-crack-down-on-tiktok-spark-backlash-against-israel/7535577.html https://www.voanews.com/a/efforts-by-us-to-crack-down-on-tik... Has to be seen in larger context of the Attention Wars. There is now more content then eyeballs by a massive margin. The UN report on the Attention Economy quotes a study that says less than 0.5% of content produced is being consumed by a human. In such a abnormal state of surplus Content, how does anyone get noticed? There are just 2 options - 1. Spend more on ads. (This is something all politicians know cause the winner of every single American Presidential Election is the candidate who spent more on Ads on Broadcast Media. Atleast up until Trump+Zuckerbergs algos allowed a different path to Attention Capture. The algos were quickly rectified. See Twitter Files from Matt Taibbi. So when the elites talk about democracy and tell you to vote ask them to pay you instead of the lobbyists, politicians and zuck) 2. Control what the Platforms do. If the platforms dont bend make them. See Modi in India. Bigger question than Tik Tok bans is why are we producing so much Content? If there are more producers than consumers. And the producers are causing every growing content growth, and all locked in an arms race for non growing attention what is the Purpose of such a system?

kylebenzle 2y ago
> what is the Purpose of such a system? It makes money, duh.

janalsncm 2y ago

I guess his implication is that TikTok is intentionally distorting opinion. But how do we know public opinion on TikTok isn’t what the baseline would be, and the rest of US public opinion isn’t the one being intentionally influenced? I am for the divestiture (US media should be controlled by Americans) but it does raise questions.

blagie 2y ago
> I am for the divestiture (US media should be controlled by Americans) but it does raise questions. Why? And is this universal? Should French media be controlled by the French? Chinese media by the Chinese? North Korean by the North Koreans? That's a genuine question (and non-OP can give their own responses). I have rather complex opinions, not strongly held, and I'd love to hear from others.
- CogitoCogito 2y ago
  I wouldn’t go so far as to say that US media should be owned by Americans, but I do wonder if it makes sense to allow foreigners to have ownership if their own countries don’t allow the same kinds of rights as well. Bringing China up, I don’t really see why Chinese media should be allowed more access to American markets when they don’t reciprocate.
  - kylebenzle 2y ago
    So the law would be that any country that has another country's media stations operating with in their country will then be allowed to have their media organizations operating in the first country? That sounds complicated and schizophrenic. So every country has to maintain a list of countries that have some sort of quasi-official news regulation agency that says who's a news agency and not are not and where they're operating? Just the idea sounds too dumb to believe.
    - mogiddy55 2y ago
      Yes, there typically has to be reciprocity; this is what closed off the world's media throughout the entire duration of the Cold War, and is the paradigm under which China (and Russia to an extent) still operate. It's why RFERL, originally a pro-American propaganda radio broadcast targeted at Eastern Bloc and communist countries, was created, and why you could go to jail for listening to it in the USSR. Actually, currently, you still can (in Russia under their wartime laws). It wasn't and still isn't legal to run an unregulated foreign-owned news bureau in basically any country. Social media is enmeshed with current events / news so it falls under like jurisdiction. "Schizo" applies here as there is a definite schism between countries in the world and always has been. Try operating a HAM radio around Florida/Cuba and you'll find the southern neighbor has jammed (I believe) most radio news coming from the US.

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

TikTok is a black box and so it is not really possible for people on the outside to know what it does behind the scenes. The lack of transparency and the ties to the CCP are indeed a national security threat to other countries. I recall reading analysis that showed very skewed representation of different keywords on TikTok compared to other platforms. I have trouble believing that this is actually organic and balanced. I think it is much more likely that it is a result of manipulation - how TikTok increases or reduces certain views. China has a tool that’s perfect to create political chaos in rival countries - I doubt they would pass up the opportunity to abuse it. I also find it suspicious that ByteDance would rather shut down TikTok than allow its sale (https://www.reuters.com/technology/bytedance-prefers-tiktok-shutdown-us-if-legal-options-fail-sources-say-2024-04-25/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/bytedance-prefers-tiktok-...). Let’s also not forget - China does not allow American social media to operate in their country. When trade is allowed, access to their market is highly controlled - for example Tesla being forced to use Baidu for mapping. TikTok can and should be banned on the grounds of this free trade issue, leaving aside privacy and national security problems.

kylebenzle 2y ago
The New York times is a black box. And this lack of transparency along with its connection to the US government are indeed a national security threat to other countries...
zaphirplane 2y ago
You are kidding, Facebook, twitter and google are black boxes. ChatGPT (as a a generic name for LLM) is another level of black box. Me thinks you picked the wrong point to build an argument
nextaccountic 2y ago
Every social media app is a black box. Some has shown to maliciously manipulate the public, like Facebook with its emotional manipulation

mmaniac 2y ago

It's helpful that Romney came out and said it so brazenly. There's been a lot of incredulity over this idea until now.

krapp 2y ago
There still will be. I believe this narrative is part a more general effort to normalize the suspicion that all "leftist" or "progressive" ideology among American youth, especially any rejection of capitalism, religion, or American imperialism, is the result of communist propaganda and mind control. The end goal being the government exercising direct censorship and control over the American internet to preserve "free speech" from pernicious foreign influence.
- mmaniac 2y ago
  I agree, but I would characterise it more generally than that. It's not specifically leftism, but any rejection of the theory that underpin the present power structure. For example, right wing populism which takes the form of isolationism (in America) or anti-Atlanticism (in Europe) must be Russian astroturfing.