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You do know that you can switch jobs if you don't like the one you're in at the moment, right? And it is not my problem with how much someone if paid, really.

You do know that you can switch jobs if you don't like the one you're in at the moment, right? And it is not my problem with how much someone if paid, really. I put out a request for work, companies bid, the cheapest one overall wins. That's how the free market works. And sure, believe whatever you want, but getting the best deal possible is not going to be the end of the US :)

Hikikomori 2y ago
Why would it matter if they can switch jobs or not when all jobs would exploit workers the same way in your non union ideal.
- ExoticPearTree 2y ago
  No one is exploiting anyone. As a free individual you agree or not to be paid a certain amount of money for a unit of work - an hour in the majority of cases. The only reason unions exist is so they can extort business owners into paying more than the market is willing to pay for that unit of work. And the fact that as a business owner you can't easily fire a unionized employee is the worst thing possible. You can downvote me to oblivion, but unions are cancer and they need to be abolished.
  - Hikikomori 2y ago
    Ah yes, American capitalism well known for not exploiting anyone.
  - int_19h 2y ago
    What do you mean by "extort", exactly? Refusing to perform work for a pay that is too low is pretty much the essence of free market. Why are you okay when individuals do it separately, but suddenly not okay when they band together?
    - ExoticPearTree 2y ago
      They band together and then they be like: we want 50% wage increase or we all quit and you lose a lot of money in the process. This is what I mean by extort.
      - int_19h 2y ago
        How is that extortion, exactly? They are merely refusing to trade their labor for the price offered. This is just basic negotiation, a fundamental mechanism of any free market. The only reason to be offended by it specifically when people do it collectively rather than individually is because in the former case they actually have enough bargaining power vs their employer to get a better price for their labor. That is, because the market is "too free" to produce the desired (low) price of labor.
        ExoticPearTree 2y ago
        And then they lobby the politicians to make it illegal to fire all of them for banding together. Extortion. You know, if companies agree to never sell something under a certain price point it is called a cartel and it is illegal. But when workers do the same thing it's legal. Where's the fairness in that?
        int_19h 2y ago
        The fairness is in the fact that the balance is tilted so immensely in favor of capital in the first place, that workers need to band together just to make things somewhat closer to equal when it comes to bargaining power. Of course, in the ideal world, all companies would be worker-owned co-ops, and then unions would be unnecessary.

Hikikomori 2y ago

Why would it matter if they can switch jobs or not when all jobs would exploit workers the same way in your non union ideal.

ExoticPearTree 2y ago
No one is exploiting anyone. As a free individual you agree or not to be paid a certain amount of money for a unit of work - an hour in the majority of cases. The only reason unions exist is so they can extort business owners into paying more than the market is willing to pay for that unit of work. And the fact that as a business owner you can't easily fire a unionized employee is the worst thing possible. You can downvote me to oblivion, but unions are cancer and they need to be abolished.
- Hikikomori 2y ago
  Ah yes, American capitalism well known for not exploiting anyone.
- int_19h 2y ago
  What do you mean by "extort", exactly? Refusing to perform work for a pay that is too low is pretty much the essence of free market. Why are you okay when individuals do it separately, but suddenly not okay when they band together?
  - ExoticPearTree 2y ago
    They band together and then they be like: we want 50% wage increase or we all quit and you lose a lot of money in the process. This is what I mean by extort.
    - int_19h 2y ago
      How is that extortion, exactly? They are merely refusing to trade their labor for the price offered. This is just basic negotiation, a fundamental mechanism of any free market. The only reason to be offended by it specifically when people do it collectively rather than individually is because in the former case they actually have enough bargaining power vs their employer to get a better price for their labor. That is, because the market is "too free" to produce the desired (low) price of labor.
      - ExoticPearTree 2y ago
        And then they lobby the politicians to make it illegal to fire all of them for banding together. Extortion. You know, if companies agree to never sell something under a certain price point it is called a cartel and it is illegal. But when workers do the same thing it's legal. Where's the fairness in that?
        int_19h 2y ago
        The fairness is in the fact that the balance is tilted so immensely in favor of capital in the first place, that workers need to band together just to make things somewhat closer to equal when it comes to bargaining power. Of course, in the ideal world, all companies would be worker-owned co-ops, and then unions would be unnecessary.