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> So, I'm/we're just supposed to accept your narrative "without proof" but "the other side" requires proof No, not at all, the number of Palestinians in Israel

by dakom 2y ago

> So, I'm/we're just supposed to accept your narrative "without proof" but "the other side" requires proof No, not at all, the number of Palestinians in Israel is a matter of public record. The Hamas strategy of human shields is extremely well documented. It's trivial to get footage of Palestinians driving on Israeli roads without hassle. Literally only need to go to a supermarket 15 minutes outside of Jerusalem, even in Jewish areas like mishor adumim. > unless you already realized the broader context that Israel needs to maintain enough public support Huh? There's no "broader context" to accusations of genocide. Either Israel has a policy of murdering all the Palestinians or it doesn't. It doesn't. (Though there isn't really a genetic difference between Palestinians and Jordanian/Egyptian Arabs, not sure if that would even be genocide- but that's semantics, Israel is obviously not trying to wipe these people out, even if their identity is based on recent tribal affiliations) Eh.. honestly, I'd go through your response point by point, but you are both clueless _and_ passionate, which is a combo I don't feel like dealing with. If we're going into "you should watch", I literally worked on a documentary series about the formation of the state of Israel called "Faith and Fate", produced by Rabbi Berel Wein. It covers the period leading up to the state of Israel. It speaks to some of the issues you brought up like pogroms against Jews in Israel in the 1920's, the white paper, yearning of the indigenous people to return to their homeland for a couple thousand years, etc. etc.

loceng 2y ago
That video clip is is literally ~1 minute long - I DARE YOU TO WATCH IT, and then give your response to it: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5pI0nLBxR3/ https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5pI0nLBxR3/ Re: 'If we're going into "you should watch", I literally worked on a documentary series about the formation of the state of Israel called "Faith and Fate"' You're playing the avoidance game - to avoid having to challenge your currently blindly-unchallenged narrative you've convinced yourself is the truth; common practice of an ideologue who's beliefs can't hold water once challenged. Re: "Either Israel has a policy of murdering all the Palestinians or it doesn't. It doesn't." This is called bipolar or all-or-nothing thinking. You either have a mental block or you're being intellectually dishonest by not being willing, avoiding actually integrating my logic into your thinking to then respond to that vs. blatant knee-jerk reaction dismissal. And you throw in ad hominem claiming I'm clueless while 1) only shallowly answering a cherrypicked few points so it looks like you responded, and 2) to avoid entering into a logic thread that will break apart your beliefs.
- dakom 2y ago
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  - deleted 2y ago
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loceng 2y ago
I was unable to reply to your last reply since someone flagged/killed it, so replying here: Straw man argument - the video is one piece of evidence towards a corpus that paints all of this current Israeli government as genocidal. And are you claiming Netanyahu doesn't have a political agenda? Didn't Netanyahu fund Hamas to prop them up? And that you're ignoring/dismissing what the ex-IDF intelligence agency's head says because he supposedly has a political agenda - while Netanyahu certainly has a political agenda, as well do many of his Ministers et al made public statements to that effect - supported now by their actions considered war crimes/crimes against humanity based on international law. Netanyahu since a long time has stated he doesn't believe Palestinians deserve their own state - and his actions have been working towards making that nearly impossible now. Israel government has even shown a map of Israel - where it covers and includes all of Palestine: if that isn't evidence of premeditated genocide, then what is showing such a map "from the river to the sea" [this is a map shown by Israel by the way, and that phrase comes from being used by Israel first] - what does or could that signify in your mind? I doubt you even understand where in the line of evidence his interview would fit in the puzzle pieces, your mind seems very locked up/bound in fabricated weave of thin narrative lines. And are you so certain Hamas has the stated goal of wiping "us" out? Are you aware the part in the Hamas Charter, associated with it, claiming to say Hamas will "obliterate all Jews" is mistranslated? You've already already lazily avoided enough of my argument points that I'm not going to waste my time with someone who's probably just a dishonest emotional "fast talker" on live video, if this is how you behave in writing. You have a bunch of logical fallacies in your thinking - that bipolar / all-or-nothing thinking perhaps skewing your understanding the most, for starters, where genocide doesn't require immediately or successfully killing 100% of people. And then you parrot boring rhetoric like "accusations are weird and baseless" to just add as filler, to make your argument look longer and probably to try to calm yourself down as a keyboard warrior for high emotions. Claiming the interview with ex-IDF head saying if he was a Palestinian he'd be fight the Israelis for his freedom - he'd do anything - implies a lot. I'd be happy to walk you through that but you don't seem open to new information, e.g. from his statement it can 100% be inferred that from his perspective at the very top of their intelligence agency - which gives him a lot of credibility, even if you claim to just want to dismiss him offhand, honest-rational-reasonable-unbiased people won't) - and that the Palestinians aren't a free people, that they are occupied and controlled-suppressed by this Israeli government. How about you start addressing each of my points, not cherrypick, show that you can think through situations and information put forward to you - instead of regurgitating your propaganda narrative lines like that list you made? Since you have experience doing documentaries, why don't you do a documentary for "the other side"? Gather all of the evidence, video clips, etc - and piecing them together, and then work through the cognitive dissonance you're clearly having - and outline in the highest detail possible the differences in the narratives? Here's a starting point for you in the documentary, a thought exercise us: I'm going to give 55% of your land/properties/assets/money [yes, yours dakom] to the Palestinian refugees because of the allegedly accidental killing of 10,000s of civilians as compensation to give them new places to live. You agree to doing this, yes? Why or why not? Or will you avoid answering this question too because you'll infer and understand the point I am making you run into?

by dakom 2y ago

loceng 2y ago

That video clip is is literally ~1 minute long - I DARE YOU TO WATCH IT, and then give your response to it: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5pI0nLBxR3/ https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5pI0nLBxR3/ Re: 'If we're going into "you should watch", I literally worked on a documentary series about the formation of the state of Israel called "Faith and Fate"' You're playing the avoidance game - to avoid having to challenge your currently blindly-unchallenged narrative you've convinced yourself is the truth; common practice of an ideologue who's beliefs can't hold water once challenged. Re: "Either Israel has a policy of murdering all the Palestinians or it doesn't. It doesn't." This is called bipolar or all-or-nothing thinking. You either have a mental block or you're being intellectually dishonest by not being willing, avoiding actually integrating my logic into your thinking to then respond to that vs. blatant knee-jerk reaction dismissal. And you throw in ad hominem claiming I'm clueless while 1) only shallowly answering a cherrypicked few points so it looks like you responded, and 2) to avoid entering into a logic thread that will break apart your beliefs.

dakom 2y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

loceng 2y ago

I was unable to reply to your last reply since someone flagged/killed it, so replying here: Straw man argument - the video is one piece of evidence towards a corpus that paints all of this current Israeli government as genocidal. And are you claiming Netanyahu doesn't have a political agenda? Didn't Netanyahu fund Hamas to prop them up? And that you're ignoring/dismissing what the ex-IDF intelligence agency's head says because he supposedly has a political agenda - while Netanyahu certainly has a political agenda, as well do many of his Ministers et al made public statements to that effect - supported now by their actions considered war crimes/crimes against humanity based on international law. Netanyahu since a long time has stated he doesn't believe Palestinians deserve their own state - and his actions have been working towards making that nearly impossible now. Israel government has even shown a map of Israel - where it covers and includes all of Palestine: if that isn't evidence of premeditated genocide, then what is showing such a map "from the river to the sea" [this is a map shown by Israel by the way, and that phrase comes from being used by Israel first] - what does or could that signify in your mind? I doubt you even understand where in the line of evidence his interview would fit in the puzzle pieces, your mind seems very locked up/bound in fabricated weave of thin narrative lines. And are you so certain Hamas has the stated goal of wiping "us" out? Are you aware the part in the Hamas Charter, associated with it, claiming to say Hamas will "obliterate all Jews" is mistranslated? You've already already lazily avoided enough of my argument points that I'm not going to waste my time with someone who's probably just a dishonest emotional "fast talker" on live video, if this is how you behave in writing. You have a bunch of logical fallacies in your thinking - that bipolar / all-or-nothing thinking perhaps skewing your understanding the most, for starters, where genocide doesn't require immediately or successfully killing 100% of people. And then you parrot boring rhetoric like "accusations are weird and baseless" to just add as filler, to make your argument look longer and probably to try to calm yourself down as a keyboard warrior for high emotions. Claiming the interview with ex-IDF head saying if he was a Palestinian he'd be fight the Israelis for his freedom - he'd do anything - implies a lot. I'd be happy to walk you through that but you don't seem open to new information, e.g. from his statement it can 100% be inferred that from his perspective at the very top of their intelligence agency - which gives him a lot of credibility, even if you claim to just want to dismiss him offhand, honest-rational-reasonable-unbiased people won't) - and that the Palestinians aren't a free people, that they are occupied and controlled-suppressed by this Israeli government. How about you start addressing each of my points, not cherrypick, show that you can think through situations and information put forward to you - instead of regurgitating your propaganda narrative lines like that list you made? Since you have experience doing documentaries, why don't you do a documentary for "the other side"? Gather all of the evidence, video clips, etc - and piecing them together, and then work through the cognitive dissonance you're clearly having - and outline in the highest detail possible the differences in the narratives? Here's a starting point for you in the documentary, a thought exercise us: I'm going to give 55% of your land/properties/assets/money [yes, yours dakom] to the Palestinian refugees because of the allegedly accidental killing of 10,000s of civilians as compensation to give them new places to live. You agree to doing this, yes? Why or why not? Or will you avoid answering this question too because you'll infer and understand the point I am making you run into?