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The article seriously downplays the role of luck here but it isn't wrong. If you live judiciously and save as much as you can by doing so, you reach a point whe
by ChuckMcM 2y ago
The article seriously downplays the role of luck here but it isn't wrong. If you live judiciously and save as much as you can by doing so, you reach a point where you can live judiciously without going into the office every day.
The common thread is that just because you can buy something, or can qualify for a particular mortgage, doesn't mean you should if you're goal is to "retire" early. One of the engineers I worked at Sun with told me that once he had enough value in Sun stock he just decided it was enough. He never moved out of his "starter" house (small 3 bedroom) and always drove his budget/no-options economy car at least 100,000 miles. And his idea of a "great vacation" was camping in the Sierras. So it didn't take much for him to get there and in the middle of the dot com "boom" he sold all his stock, paid his taxes, paid off his house, and retired.
The part the article doesn't talk about enough is the whole "why do you want to be rich?" question. People look at me funny when I ask them that, but as the article mentioned you can only take so many vacations, movies, what have you. People fail at retirement all the time, feeling like their life is being wasted now that they aren't "doing" anything. In my experience, unless you've got the ability to self-motivate to do something you are really interested in that helps you grow, you may find yourself wanting to go back to work.
An interesting thing about going back to work though, if you don't need the job you can be really honest about how you see things and how much time you are willing to spend in the office. I have met a number of engineering managers who don't do well when the only tool in their toolbox is "If you don't, I'll fire you."[1]
So many people have a very very complex relationship with money. Too many use it as a "score" to reinforce their own self image. When it becomes apparent to me that someone is in that mindset, if I'm in a place to do so I ask them if someone who won the PowerBall lottery is better than they are because they would be richer. Most can see how non-nonsensical that is, but it helps to step back and remind yourself that net worth has exactly zero relationship to how good a person you are.
[1] If you're one of those managers reach out, I can coach you to becoming a better manager and charge reasonable rates to do so.
- 48864w6ui 2y ago> use it as a "score" Sounds like achiever/explorer/killer/socializer?
- khazhoux 2y ago> To many people have a very very complex relationship with money. Too many use it as a "score" to reinforce their own self image. This quote from the show Ozark really resonated with me: "Money is not peace of mind. Money's not happiness. Money is, at its essence, the measure of a man's choices."
- cafard 2y agoMoney is not peace of mind, but lack of money--measured against real and perceived needs--is a great detriment to peace of mind.
- ChuckMcM 2y agoI found the book "Scarcity: While having too little means so much" very informative in that regard. The fundamental principle is that when something is scarce, one doesn't always make rational choices. And while the conversation is generally around money, it applies equally to any finite resource. I found a lot of wisdom in that book when substituting "time" for "money." That is because running around with a scarcity mindset around time puts some of the exact same mechanisms into play.
- khazhoux 2y agoCould you expand on this, Chuck? When time is scarce, we tend to make poorer choices in how we use our available time?
- ChuckMcM 2y agoThat is exactly correct. So a money example; Winter's coming and you need a coat, you don't have much money and so you buy the cheap coat that costs $40 instead of the expensive coat that costs $60, 2/3rds through winter your coat fails and you buy another cheap coat for $40. You're out $80 for the winter vs being out $60. A time example works similarly, when time is scarce you choose not to invest enough time into something (cleaning, fixing something, reading, whatever) and by making that choice, over a wider period you end up spending more time on this task because you're making up for not doing enough when you could have. For me the trigger is anytime I think "I should do <x> but I don't have enough <y> to do it, correctly but I can get by using only a small amount of <y> if I do it this other way." That is a scarcity based decision not a reasoned one. The deal for me is to look at the situation with a wider lens to see what the longer term resource requirement is and working from that. It does result in what can feel like a "riskier" choice, but when I track those choices I find making the non-scarcity driven decision is usually the better choice.
- inemesitaffia 2y agoSo many use it to criticize others. Losing money or net worth as evidence of moral turpitude
- flandish 2y agoMy stepdad saved, as much as he could, so he and my mom could enjoy at the level or slightly less, retired 18 months ago and was proud. Retired at 71. Died this January past. Got less than 2 years. Thanks Capitalism!
- ChuckMcM 2y agoI'm sorry for your loss.
- matchbok 2y agoThanks poor financial planning!
- flandish 2y agogo fuck yourself.
- dang 2y agoPlease don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40314726 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40314726.
- dang 2y agoThis crosses badly into personal attack and we ban accounts that do that, so please don't do it again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40314730 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40314730.
- cscurmudgeon 2y agoflandish has been consistently attacking others and posting trollish comments. Example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40289592 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40289592 > it only makes you seem like the simp for profit piece of trash you are. Compared to above what you are pointing out here is mild.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- nunez 2y ago> The common thread is that just because you can buy something, or can qualify for a particular mortgage, doesn't mean you should if you're goal is to "retire" early. One of the engineers I worked at Sun with told me that once he had enough value in Sun stock he just decided it was enough. He never moved out of his "starter" house (small 3 bedroom) and always drove his budget/no-options economy car at least 100,000 miles. And his idea of a "great vacation" was camping in the Sierras. So it didn't take much for him to get there and in the middle of the dot com "boom" he sold all his stock, paid his taxes, paid off his house, and retired. My problem with the FIRE and /r/of communities is that their loudest proponents shun anyone who _doesn't_ want to live like this. Anyone who wants new cars, nice vacations (don't you dare mention flying business class!), and nice houses are anathema to these folks, even if you can clearly (a) afford it and (b) continue to save towards retirement, albeit less aggressively. This is why I like the /r/fatFIRE community instead. They acknowledge that one can want to retire early (or just retire at a normal age, but with thick assets) and live a nice life while getting there IF you are willing/able to push for higher income jobs.
- fragmede 2y agoI mean, that's just called being rich, which is great work if you can get it, but kinda rude because not everyone can just pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
- chaostheory 2y agoIf we’re talking FIRE instead of FatFIRE, I think if you go the Mr Money Moustache or Millionaire Next Door route it’s much less about luck and more about financial discipline which as you’ve implied is very difficult. Many of its successful disciples only make 5 figures. They’re just retiring in their 40s and 50s and not in their 20s.