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This is why I love my fully automated <s>luxury</s> mediocre espresso maker (https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/blogs/scg-blog/jura-a1-review https://www.seattle

This is why I love my fully automated <s>luxury</s> mediocre espresso maker (https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/blogs/scg-blog/jura-a1-review https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/blogs/scg-blog/jura-a1-rev...). I push a button, it grinds the coffee and does stuff inside that I can't see, then moments later I have a perfectly average cup of something resembling burnt bean soup. I don't know whether it's megasonically brewed or absolute-zero infused or just wet caffeine pills. Sometimes it's OK, other times it's mediocre, but it's never been excellent or terrible. That's the same kind of consistency my code has, so I'm fine with it. It comes out lukewarm, hovering somewhere between room temperature and minutes-old vomit. If I want it hot, I microwave it. If I want it cold, I add ice. If I want a cold latte, I add milk. If I want a hot latte, I'm in the wrong house. It costs less than $1 for a quad shot. It provides caffeine or at least a close-enough placebo effect. What more could an old, washed-out dev ask for?

Xerox9213 3y ago
But how do you waste time in the morning if you’re not concocting some over complicated drink? I feel like my morning coffee is the one part of my day that I can control. You bet I’m gonna take my time and make it enjoyable.
- kimixa 3y ago
  I also like the "ritual" of brewing a coffee to help me wake up in the morning. And even then, it's less than 10 minutes total preparing a pour over, it probably takes less time than cleaning out a filter machine would. And for people thinking you need some $$$ machine, even the most pretentious experts agree that pour over is about as good as that style of brewing can get (IE not something like espresso). A hand grinder and plastic v60 will get you to the point you're not limited by the equipment. The biggest expense is the beans themselves, and that's as much a taste thing as anything else. But I guess like any hobby you there will be people selling you all kinds of things at any price people are willing to pay - maybe it makes it a bit easier, maybe a bit quicker, maybe it looks better on your counter. Maybe it gives you something a bit different and unusual. But none of it gives you better coffee.
  - lostlogin 3y ago
    > there will be people selling you all kinds of things at any price people are willing to pay - maybe it makes it a bit easier, maybe a bit quicker, maybe it looks better on your counter. Maybe it gives you something a bit different and unusual. But none of it gives you better coffee. The Faema e61 Legend isn’t quicker or easier, but damn it is pretty. And that makes the coffee better. It’s also an effective space heater. https://www.faema.com/uk-en/product/E61-MONOFASE-ANNIVERSARIO https://www.faema.com/uk-en/product/E61-MONOFASE-ANNIVERSARI...
    - pkroll 3y ago
      Oh, THAT's pretty? I give you the Manument: https://manument.com/en/manument-leva-machine https://manument.com/en/manument-leva-machine Well. Not GIVE. It's $20K.
- lostlogin 3y ago
  > But how do you waste time in the morning if you’re not concocting some over complicated drink? Many relaxing things are part ritual. I like your thought process.
- jorvi 3y ago
  I'd say in life you generally want to stick to 20/80 80/20. Spend 20% in effort and/or currency to get 80% of the optimal result. Spending the other 80% to get another 20% gain is rarely worth it.
- mesaverde 3y ago
  I recently dipped my toes into the world of coffee brewing. It all began with a simple realization: I enjoy coffee a lot, so why not elevate my at-home coffee experience from instant to something better? Using my v60, the slightly longer brewing process has led me to cut down my daily intake to 1-2 (sometimes 3) cups from my previous 4-5. As a parent with young children, finding time for myself is a rare luxury, even going to the toilet isn't the private sanctuary it once was. Yet, on weekend mornings, I steal away 10-15 minutes to focus on brewing my coffee. I'm not overly precious or meticulous about it, but the result is a richer, more flavorful coffee. The act of brewing itself becomes a calm and relaxing ritual as I watch the water soak into the coffee grounds and the aroma fills the air. And its just a good way for me to start the day, before whatever madness and challenges my kids are about to create.
taylorportman 3y ago
Your ambivalence contributes little to the conversation.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  It represents the same position of mediocre acceptance that many espresso affectionadors will arrrive at after spending many months/years mucking about with expensive kit. It’s the natural progression of most hobbies
- solardev 3y ago
  Wait till you see my cookbook, "1-minute Meal Replacement Powders", the perfect complement to my self-help/self-sabotage title, "Better Living Through Lower Standards". YOLO, and no one gets it right on the first try anyway...
  - enjeyw 3y ago
    Are you offering shares in your venture? I’d be mildly interested in investing on the expectation that I’d see returns that are slightly worse than inflation. Not that interested though, so whatever.
  - toast0 3y ago
    You may be interested in my philosophy on uptime: nine nines is hard, how about eight eights.
- jdlshore 3y ago
  Whereas I appreciated the unexpected spice, only to quickly be reminded by your comment that, yes, this is HackerNews.
ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
Friend of mine, with money, has a coffee machine, by a company I’d never heard of, called “Jura”[0]. I’d not heard of it, because it’s not for plebes, like me. Grinds and brews a perfect cuppa in about a minute. I used to have a toddy maker, where you dumped a whole pound of ground coffee into a bucket of water, let it sit overnight, in the fridge, then you drained through a filter. The resulting thick liquid was like really good instant coffee. You threw a bit into a cup, added hot water, and it tasted great. [0] https://us.jura.com/en https://us.jura.com/en
- dc96 3y ago
  Looks like the comment you replied to links to a Jura as well
  - ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
    Yeah. My friend has one that cost around 3 grand. The main issue that I would have, is maintenance. I would guess that it would need a fair bit of cleaning. I just use a fairly basic Braun Melitta filter, and it does great.
    - solardev 3y ago
      It's got a decent self-cleaning cycle. Every month or two, it'll ask you to put in a cleaning tablet (about $2 for the OEM version, or there are cheaper generic ones). It goes through an internal cleanse and poops out a slop of muckety muck. I put on soft yoga music for mine, but that's optional. Ten minutes later it's ready to use again. About half as frequently, it'll also ask you to put in a descaling tablet. Similar process. Beyond that, day-to-day, it can make about 8 shots of espresso before the grounds hopper is full. You just dump it and rinse it in the sink (no need for a thorough wash) and it's ready to use again. Less cleanup than a regular drip coffee maker (no filters to deal with, no grind dust to rinse/brush, no glassware, nothing to dry). It's super convenient. The main downside is really just taste. I tried to do a blind taste test with my coffee snob friend (he's the kinda guy who measures everything down to the milligram and gives his grounds acupuncture before sending them to the spa). We used the same bag of beans, same water, same cups, etc. His came out with a layer of fine oils and sparkling foam. Mine looked like someone opened a dishwasher prematurely. We couldn't even get to the taste test part because you could smell the difference with your eyes closed. And I had a clogged nose that day. Maybe the $3k Jura is different, but my janky little unit is definitely a poor man's machine – the hand-me-down Civic of superautomatic coffee makers. I'd buy it again in a heartbeat though.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
King-Aaron 3y ago
I like the cut of your jib.
dahart 3y ago
I love that! The context I didn’t put in my top comment but added elsewhere is that this old washed-out dev requires low acidity because regular coffee was causing inflammation in my throat. That’s really all I want, less acid in my coffee, not something fancy. Except that I don’t want it cold, I want it hot like I’ve always had it. Other than that, I’m like you, I’m also perfectly fine with a perfectly average mediocre cup of joe.
- IIsi50MHz 3y ago
  Small amounts of potassium bicarbonate can be used to neutralise the remaining acidity. This helps prevent bitterness, and should not harm other aspects of the taste, unlike sodium bicarbonate. Dissolve into cold water, mix throughly, then add coffee grounds and stir. If you intend to store it, complete absence of light and absence of O2 wild also help prevent bitterness.
WilTimSon 3y ago
Well, you're lucky to not have spoiled your palate, in a way. I learned to love good coffee through my friends and I now only drink regular espressos from a machine if there's no other choice. And I'm not being snobby or anything, I fully understand why people drink it, I used to do it all the time. But my friends had to go and teach me about brewing methods and beans and yadda yadda. Friend of mine had a similar issue where his parents were wine people and, ever since he could drink, taught him how to pick good wine. Except he realised he does not want to pay that much for alcohol so he now just sticks to beer.
- wickedsight 3y ago
  Can you try and explain the difference? I've tried many brewing methods and quite like Aeropress, but can't say that I won't like anything else because of it. I also quite like the stuff from my automatic espresso maker, especially if it's just been cleaned. > now just sticks to beer. Guess he's lucky he hasn't tried good beer ;)
  - WilTimSon 3y ago
    I've been mulling this over since yesterday. The best way I can explain is that I genuinely taste different "notes" in coffee brewed in different ways and from different beans, whereas with most espresso machines the taste feels overpowered by one singular note, usually something nutty, close to peanuts. It's not disgusting or bad, but it' kind of like having a preference in tea or sauces. You could eat your meal with that one sauce you're offered, but you might have a different preference. And coffee is the sauce of my days, heh.
- benjijay 3y ago
  I was recently discussing this with a colleague and we settled on calling it quality creep - as you become used to better things, the stuff that was previously acceptable becomes unbearable. e.g. I used to drink any old instand coffee, then I found Douwe Egberts and strongly preferred that for a few years, then I started making pour-overs with pre ground coffee in a v60, then I found a better grind/roast/etc of the beans which is my go-to - now I drink 'real' coffee black and can only tolerate instant if it's adulterated with milk and a little sugar. I'm trying to avoid making the jump to pulling my own espressos, it looks like way more fuss than the pour-over...
BrandoElFollito 3y ago
This is more or less what I get as well with my Nespresso machine (it costs 1€, you have to buy x€ of coffee every month which is OK for me). The average cost of a coffee is 0.4€. The great thing is that it has zero maintenance and zero cleaning. I should probably do some de-limestoning (yes, there is a correct word for that that escapes me now) but I just avoid looking too closely.
- solardev 3y ago
  Totally. I think the Nespressos actually make better coffee. I just wanted something that produced less plastic waste. The only waste outputs of this machine are spent grounds and water (well, and heat). And I can put in any whole beans I like (we just get ours from Trader Joe's), not limited to the Nescafe ecosystem.
  - BrandoElFollito 3y ago
    Oh, absolutely. I wanted a zero-maintenance system because I know myself and it would not end well. My wife was considering a mid-range+ coffee maker where you would have two bean containers and make combinations. It cost a fortune (on my personal scale) and I told her that she lost her mind. And then did an Excel sheet where I realized that the two lines meet at 12 or 15 months...
chasd00 3y ago
> somewhere between room temperature and minutes-old vomit New unit of measure unlocked.
adolph 3y ago
> moments later I have a perfectly average cup of something Something about this description brings to mind the tea made by a Nutrimatic machine. https://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/guide/tea.shtml https://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/guide/tea.shtml
justin66 3y ago
> What more could an old, washed-out dev ask for? From the sound of things, Soylent. https://soylent.com/ https://soylent.com/
- solardev 3y ago
  Heh, we actually order many boxes of a similar thing (Huel) every month. It's about half of our monthly food intake (by calories). As a kid I used to dream about being able to photosynthesize. I'd love to never have to worry about food or beverage intakes again.
insane_dreamer 3y ago
Our Breville makes good espresso for 1/4 of the price of that machine. (We have a separate grinder, so it's a semi-manual process to grind each day.) So much depends on the quality of the beans you buy and how you store them.
anonuser1234 3y ago
You've got a perdy writing style

Xerox9213 3y ago

But how do you waste time in the morning if you’re not concocting some over complicated drink? I feel like my morning coffee is the one part of my day that I can control. You bet I’m gonna take my time and make it enjoyable.

kimixa 3y ago
I also like the "ritual" of brewing a coffee to help me wake up in the morning. And even then, it's less than 10 minutes total preparing a pour over, it probably takes less time than cleaning out a filter machine would. And for people thinking you need some $$$ machine, even the most pretentious experts agree that pour over is about as good as that style of brewing can get (IE not something like espresso). A hand grinder and plastic v60 will get you to the point you're not limited by the equipment. The biggest expense is the beans themselves, and that's as much a taste thing as anything else. But I guess like any hobby you there will be people selling you all kinds of things at any price people are willing to pay - maybe it makes it a bit easier, maybe a bit quicker, maybe it looks better on your counter. Maybe it gives you something a bit different and unusual. But none of it gives you better coffee.
- lostlogin 3y ago
  > there will be people selling you all kinds of things at any price people are willing to pay - maybe it makes it a bit easier, maybe a bit quicker, maybe it looks better on your counter. Maybe it gives you something a bit different and unusual. But none of it gives you better coffee. The Faema e61 Legend isn’t quicker or easier, but damn it is pretty. And that makes the coffee better. It’s also an effective space heater. https://www.faema.com/uk-en/product/E61-MONOFASE-ANNIVERSARIO https://www.faema.com/uk-en/product/E61-MONOFASE-ANNIVERSARI...
  - pkroll 3y ago
    Oh, THAT's pretty? I give you the Manument: https://manument.com/en/manument-leva-machine https://manument.com/en/manument-leva-machine Well. Not GIVE. It's $20K.
lostlogin 3y ago
> But how do you waste time in the morning if you’re not concocting some over complicated drink? Many relaxing things are part ritual. I like your thought process.
jorvi 3y ago
I'd say in life you generally want to stick to 20/80 80/20. Spend 20% in effort and/or currency to get 80% of the optimal result. Spending the other 80% to get another 20% gain is rarely worth it.
mesaverde 3y ago
I recently dipped my toes into the world of coffee brewing. It all began with a simple realization: I enjoy coffee a lot, so why not elevate my at-home coffee experience from instant to something better? Using my v60, the slightly longer brewing process has led me to cut down my daily intake to 1-2 (sometimes 3) cups from my previous 4-5. As a parent with young children, finding time for myself is a rare luxury, even going to the toilet isn't the private sanctuary it once was. Yet, on weekend mornings, I steal away 10-15 minutes to focus on brewing my coffee. I'm not overly precious or meticulous about it, but the result is a richer, more flavorful coffee. The act of brewing itself becomes a calm and relaxing ritual as I watch the water soak into the coffee grounds and the aroma fills the air. And its just a good way for me to start the day, before whatever madness and challenges my kids are about to create.

taylorportman 3y ago

Your ambivalence contributes little to the conversation.

ClumsyPilot 3y ago
It represents the same position of mediocre acceptance that many espresso affectionadors will arrrive at after spending many months/years mucking about with expensive kit. It’s the natural progression of most hobbies
solardev 3y ago
Wait till you see my cookbook, "1-minute Meal Replacement Powders", the perfect complement to my self-help/self-sabotage title, "Better Living Through Lower Standards". YOLO, and no one gets it right on the first try anyway...
- enjeyw 3y ago
  Are you offering shares in your venture? I’d be mildly interested in investing on the expectation that I’d see returns that are slightly worse than inflation. Not that interested though, so whatever.
- toast0 3y ago
  You may be interested in my philosophy on uptime: nine nines is hard, how about eight eights.
jdlshore 3y ago
Whereas I appreciated the unexpected spice, only to quickly be reminded by your comment that, yes, this is HackerNews.

ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago

Friend of mine, with money, has a coffee machine, by a company I’d never heard of, called “Jura”[0]. I’d not heard of it, because it’s not for plebes, like me. Grinds and brews a perfect cuppa in about a minute. I used to have a toddy maker, where you dumped a whole pound of ground coffee into a bucket of water, let it sit overnight, in the fridge, then you drained through a filter. The resulting thick liquid was like really good instant coffee. You threw a bit into a cup, added hot water, and it tasted great. [0] https://us.jura.com/en https://us.jura.com/en

dc96 3y ago
Looks like the comment you replied to links to a Jura as well
- ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
  Yeah. My friend has one that cost around 3 grand. The main issue that I would have, is maintenance. I would guess that it would need a fair bit of cleaning. I just use a fairly basic Braun Melitta filter, and it does great.
  - solardev 3y ago
    It's got a decent self-cleaning cycle. Every month or two, it'll ask you to put in a cleaning tablet (about $2 for the OEM version, or there are cheaper generic ones). It goes through an internal cleanse and poops out a slop of muckety muck. I put on soft yoga music for mine, but that's optional. Ten minutes later it's ready to use again. About half as frequently, it'll also ask you to put in a descaling tablet. Similar process. Beyond that, day-to-day, it can make about 8 shots of espresso before the grounds hopper is full. You just dump it and rinse it in the sink (no need for a thorough wash) and it's ready to use again. Less cleanup than a regular drip coffee maker (no filters to deal with, no grind dust to rinse/brush, no glassware, nothing to dry). It's super convenient. The main downside is really just taste. I tried to do a blind taste test with my coffee snob friend (he's the kinda guy who measures everything down to the milligram and gives his grounds acupuncture before sending them to the spa). We used the same bag of beans, same water, same cups, etc. His came out with a layer of fine oils and sparkling foam. Mine looked like someone opened a dishwasher prematurely. We couldn't even get to the taste test part because you could smell the difference with your eyes closed. And I had a clogged nose that day. Maybe the $3k Jura is different, but my janky little unit is definitely a poor man's machine – the hand-me-down Civic of superautomatic coffee makers. I'd buy it again in a heartbeat though.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

King-Aaron 3y ago

I like the cut of your jib.

dahart 3y ago

I love that! The context I didn’t put in my top comment but added elsewhere is that this old washed-out dev requires low acidity because regular coffee was causing inflammation in my throat. That’s really all I want, less acid in my coffee, not something fancy. Except that I don’t want it cold, I want it hot like I’ve always had it. Other than that, I’m like you, I’m also perfectly fine with a perfectly average mediocre cup of joe.

IIsi50MHz 3y ago
Small amounts of potassium bicarbonate can be used to neutralise the remaining acidity. This helps prevent bitterness, and should not harm other aspects of the taste, unlike sodium bicarbonate. Dissolve into cold water, mix throughly, then add coffee grounds and stir. If you intend to store it, complete absence of light and absence of O2 wild also help prevent bitterness.

WilTimSon 3y ago

Well, you're lucky to not have spoiled your palate, in a way. I learned to love good coffee through my friends and I now only drink regular espressos from a machine if there's no other choice. And I'm not being snobby or anything, I fully understand why people drink it, I used to do it all the time. But my friends had to go and teach me about brewing methods and beans and yadda yadda. Friend of mine had a similar issue where his parents were wine people and, ever since he could drink, taught him how to pick good wine. Except he realised he does not want to pay that much for alcohol so he now just sticks to beer.

wickedsight 3y ago
Can you try and explain the difference? I've tried many brewing methods and quite like Aeropress, but can't say that I won't like anything else because of it. I also quite like the stuff from my automatic espresso maker, especially if it's just been cleaned. > now just sticks to beer. Guess he's lucky he hasn't tried good beer ;)
- WilTimSon 3y ago
  I've been mulling this over since yesterday. The best way I can explain is that I genuinely taste different "notes" in coffee brewed in different ways and from different beans, whereas with most espresso machines the taste feels overpowered by one singular note, usually something nutty, close to peanuts. It's not disgusting or bad, but it' kind of like having a preference in tea or sauces. You could eat your meal with that one sauce you're offered, but you might have a different preference. And coffee is the sauce of my days, heh.
benjijay 3y ago
I was recently discussing this with a colleague and we settled on calling it quality creep - as you become used to better things, the stuff that was previously acceptable becomes unbearable. e.g. I used to drink any old instand coffee, then I found Douwe Egberts and strongly preferred that for a few years, then I started making pour-overs with pre ground coffee in a v60, then I found a better grind/roast/etc of the beans which is my go-to - now I drink 'real' coffee black and can only tolerate instant if it's adulterated with milk and a little sugar. I'm trying to avoid making the jump to pulling my own espressos, it looks like way more fuss than the pour-over...

BrandoElFollito 3y ago

This is more or less what I get as well with my Nespresso machine (it costs 1€, you have to buy x€ of coffee every month which is OK for me). The average cost of a coffee is 0.4€. The great thing is that it has zero maintenance and zero cleaning. I should probably do some de-limestoning (yes, there is a correct word for that that escapes me now) but I just avoid looking too closely.

solardev 3y ago
Totally. I think the Nespressos actually make better coffee. I just wanted something that produced less plastic waste. The only waste outputs of this machine are spent grounds and water (well, and heat). And I can put in any whole beans I like (we just get ours from Trader Joe's), not limited to the Nescafe ecosystem.
- BrandoElFollito 3y ago
  Oh, absolutely. I wanted a zero-maintenance system because I know myself and it would not end well. My wife was considering a mid-range+ coffee maker where you would have two bean containers and make combinations. It cost a fortune (on my personal scale) and I told her that she lost her mind. And then did an Excel sheet where I realized that the two lines meet at 12 or 15 months...

chasd00 3y ago

> somewhere between room temperature and minutes-old vomit New unit of measure unlocked.

adolph 3y ago

> moments later I have a perfectly average cup of something Something about this description brings to mind the tea made by a Nutrimatic machine. https://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/guide/tea.shtml https://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/guide/tea.shtml

justin66 3y ago

> What more could an old, washed-out dev ask for? From the sound of things, Soylent. https://soylent.com/ https://soylent.com/

solardev 3y ago
Heh, we actually order many boxes of a similar thing (Huel) every month. It's about half of our monthly food intake (by calories). As a kid I used to dream about being able to photosynthesize. I'd love to never have to worry about food or beverage intakes again.

insane_dreamer 3y ago

Our Breville makes good espresso for 1/4 of the price of that machine. (We have a separate grinder, so it's a semi-manual process to grind each day.) So much depends on the quality of the beans you buy and how you store them.

anonuser1234 3y ago

You've got a perdy writing style