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And flossing has ... not been shown to improve anything at all really. Which is why I truthfully tell every dentist that asks: No I did not floss a single time

And flossing has ... not been shown to improve anything at all really. Which is why I truthfully tell every dentist that asks: No I did not floss a single time since the last time you told me to. Also: My dad never really brushed his teeth much if at all. No fillings ever. No teeth removed. He used toothpicks "relentlessly" (in the XP sense) like while on the couch, while thinking through some chess moves etc. Turns out that's how our (smart) ancestors "brushed": with sticks.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Turns out that's how our (smart) ancestors "brushed": with sticks If you're eating the diet our prehistoric ancestors ate, are at their level of physique and generally okay with their life expectancy, this is fine advice. For everyone else, there is limited evidence it helps prevent gum disease and halitosis [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_floss#Evidence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_floss#Evidence
- tharkun__ 2y ago
  Yes that's two different ways to say the same thing. With respect to flossing, this shouldn’t have been news either. A systematic review in 2011 concluded that, in adults, toothbrushing with flossing versus toothbrushing alone most likely reduced gingivitis, or inflammation of the gums. But there was really weak evidence that it reduced plaque in the short term. There was no evidence that it reduced cavities. That’s pretty much what we learned recently. "Surprisingly little evidence for usual wisdom about teeth (nytimes.com)" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19706409 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19706409 (https://archive.is/e1jcB https://archive.is/e1jcB)
  - sydbarrett74 2y ago
    Different types of bacteria cause cavities as opposed to those causing periodontal disease. The former are caused by obligate aerobes, the latter by facultative anaerobes and are far more dangerous. The purpose of flossing is to get at the plaque (which forms tartar within 1-3 days) that exists interdentally and below the gum-line.
bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
> And flossing has ... not been shown to improve anything at all really. Blows my mind every time I this kind of nonsense. "Never been shown"? It has been shown to me. If in slack my flossing enough soon enough bits of food get stuck in between the teeth and gun and start rotting. When youve had breath smelling like rotten food you start being more meticulous with your flossing. I have to presume that you have awful breath and are unaware.
- tharkun__ 2y ago
  Try stopping the flossing and using toothpicks instead. They go in between as well as once they feather out they become tooth brushes. The only things missing are the actually good ingredients of modern toothpaste. I also do hope that since Covid everyone with bad breath knows they have it. Except for anti maskers I guess.
  - frumper 2y ago
    Replacing flossing with diligent tooth picking is a lot different than not flossing. Most people don’t use a tooth pick or floss. If you don’t do either, you’ll probably show improvement from the act of caring to clean your teeth.
  - sydbarrett74 2y ago
    Floss gets into the tight spaces between the teeth that a toothpick cannot reach. Toothpicks are a useful adjunct for flossing, but by no means a replacement. Sorry, but unless one is blessed with near-perfect genetics, oral hygiene is real work. But it's worth it if you want to stay in good overall health into old age.
  - bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
    Wait, weren't you just making the case that flossing "has not been shown to do anything"? If it hasn't been shown to do anything, why would you suggest I replace it with something else?
    - tharkun__ 2y ago
tylerhou 2y ago
Flossing also hasn't been shown to not prevent tooth decay. (I.e. there is not much data to support one way or the other.) Also, some people don't carry the bacteria that create acid in their mouths, so (by chance) they don't need to floss/brush as much. Your dad might have been one of those people. If I don't brush or floss, I get like 5 cavities in 6 months. And my breath smells awful. It's like type systems and productivity: we don't have a lot of data to say whether type systems make people more productive or not, but there are ton of SWEs who think that type systems make them more productive, and they are probably right (at least for their domains). Dentists, in their anecdotal experience, probably see patients improve once they start flossing and brushing. That's why they suggest it.
Suppafly 2y ago
The last time I had my teeth cleaned, the hygenist kept mentioning how good I must floss and that I only missed one or two areas and even then they were trivial to clean. Finally after 3-4 times of hearing how great I flossed I finally broke down and told her that I never floss, beyond occasionally using one of those flosser sticks as a toothpick, but never with any regularity. She just couldn't believe it.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> Turns out that's how our (smart) ancestors "brushed": with sticks If you're eating the diet our prehistoric ancestors ate, are at their level of physique and generally okay with their life expectancy, this is fine advice. For everyone else, there is limited evidence it helps prevent gum disease and halitosis [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_floss#Evidence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_floss#Evidence

tharkun__ 2y ago
Yes that's two different ways to say the same thing. With respect to flossing, this shouldn’t have been news either. A systematic review in 2011 concluded that, in adults, toothbrushing with flossing versus toothbrushing alone most likely reduced gingivitis, or inflammation of the gums. But there was really weak evidence that it reduced plaque in the short term. There was no evidence that it reduced cavities. That’s pretty much what we learned recently. "Surprisingly little evidence for usual wisdom about teeth (nytimes.com)" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19706409 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19706409 (https://archive.is/e1jcB https://archive.is/e1jcB)
- sydbarrett74 2y ago
  Different types of bacteria cause cavities as opposed to those causing periodontal disease. The former are caused by obligate aerobes, the latter by facultative anaerobes and are far more dangerous. The purpose of flossing is to get at the plaque (which forms tartar within 1-3 days) that exists interdentally and below the gum-line.

bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago

> And flossing has ... not been shown to improve anything at all really. Blows my mind every time I this kind of nonsense. "Never been shown"? It has been shown to me. If in slack my flossing enough soon enough bits of food get stuck in between the teeth and gun and start rotting. When youve had breath smelling like rotten food you start being more meticulous with your flossing. I have to presume that you have awful breath and are unaware.

tharkun__ 2y ago
Try stopping the flossing and using toothpicks instead. They go in between as well as once they feather out they become tooth brushes. The only things missing are the actually good ingredients of modern toothpaste. I also do hope that since Covid everyone with bad breath knows they have it. Except for anti maskers I guess.
- frumper 2y ago
  Replacing flossing with diligent tooth picking is a lot different than not flossing. Most people don’t use a tooth pick or floss. If you don’t do either, you’ll probably show improvement from the act of caring to clean your teeth.
- sydbarrett74 2y ago
  Floss gets into the tight spaces between the teeth that a toothpick cannot reach. Toothpicks are a useful adjunct for flossing, but by no means a replacement. Sorry, but unless one is blessed with near-perfect genetics, oral hygiene is real work. But it's worth it if you want to stay in good overall health into old age.
- bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
  Wait, weren't you just making the case that flossing "has not been shown to do anything"? If it hasn't been shown to do anything, why would you suggest I replace it with something else?
  - tharkun__ 2y ago

tylerhou 2y ago

Flossing also hasn't been shown to not prevent tooth decay. (I.e. there is not much data to support one way or the other.) Also, some people don't carry the bacteria that create acid in their mouths, so (by chance) they don't need to floss/brush as much. Your dad might have been one of those people. If I don't brush or floss, I get like 5 cavities in 6 months. And my breath smells awful. It's like type systems and productivity: we don't have a lot of data to say whether type systems make people more productive or not, but there are ton of SWEs who think that type systems make them more productive, and they are probably right (at least for their domains). Dentists, in their anecdotal experience, probably see patients improve once they start flossing and brushing. That's why they suggest it.

Suppafly 2y ago

The last time I had my teeth cleaned, the hygenist kept mentioning how good I must floss and that I only missed one or two areas and even then they were trivial to clean. Finally after 3-4 times of hearing how great I flossed I finally broke down and told her that I never floss, beyond occasionally using one of those flosser sticks as a toothpick, but never with any regularity. She just couldn't believe it.