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> You aren't required to develop for iOS Do you have a legal right to write software or run your own software for hardware you bought? Because it’s very easy

> You aren't required to develop for iOS Do you have a legal right to write software or run your own software for hardware you bought? Because it’s very easy to take away a right by erecting aritificial barriers, just like how you could discriminate by race at work, but pretend you are doing something else,

ToucanLoucan 2y ago
> Do you have a legal right to write software or run your own software for hardware you bought? I've never heard of such a thing. Ideally I'd like that, but I don't have such freedoms with the computers in my cars, for example, or the one that operates my furnace, or even for certain parts of my PC.
- ClumsyPilot 2y ago
  So you bought "a thing' but you can't control what it does, how it does it, you don't get to decide what data it collects or who can see that data. You aren't allowed to repair the "thing' because the software can detect you changed something and will refuse to boot. And whenever it suits the manufacturer, they will decide when the 'thing' is declared out of support and stops functioning. I would say you are not an owner then, you (and me) and just suckers that are paying for the party. Maybe it's a lease. But then we also pay when it breaks, so it more of a digital feudalism.
paulmd 2y ago
> Do you have a legal right to write software or run your own software for hardware you bought? No, obviously not. Do you have a right to run a custom OS on your PS5? Do you have a right to run a custom application on your cable set-top box? Etc. Such a right obviously doesn’t exist and most people generally are somewhere between “don’t care” and actively rejecting it for various reasons (hacking in games, content DRM, etc). It’s fine if you think there should be, but it continues this weird trend of using apple as a foil for complaining about random other issues that other vendors tend to be just as bad or oftentimes even worse about, simply because they’re a large company with a large group of anti-fans/haters who will readily nod along. Remember when the complaint was that the pelican case of factory OEM tools you could rent (or buy) to install your factory replacement screen was too big and bulky, meaning it was really just a plot to sabotage right to repair? https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/21/23079058/apple-self-service-iphone-repair-kit-hands-on https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/21/23079058/apple-self-servi...
- dns_snek 2y ago
  > Remember when the complaint was that the pelican case of factory OEM tools you could rent (or buy) to install your factory replacement screen was too big and bulky, meaning it was really just a plot to sabotage right to repair? Yes, I do. That was and continues to be a valid complaint, among all other anti-repair schemes Apple have come up with over the years. DRM for parts, complete unavailability of some commonly repaired parts, deliberate kneecapping of "Apple authorized service providers", leveraging the US customs to seize shipments of legitimate and/or unlabeled replacement parts as "counterfeits", gaslighting by official representatives on Apple's own forums about data recovery, sabotaging right to repair laws, and even denial of design issues[1] to weasel out of warranty repair just to name a few. All with the simple anti-competitive goal of making third party repair (both authorized and independent) a less attractive option due to artificially increased prices, timelines to repair, or scaremongering about privacy. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/12/weakened-right-to-repair-bill-is-signed-into-law-by-new-yorks-governor/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/12/weakened-right-to-re... https://www.pcgamer.com/ifixit-says-apples-iphone-14-is-literally-not-repairable-due-to-strict-parts-validation-rule/ https://www.pcgamer.com/ifixit-says-apples-iphone-14-is-lite... [1] Butterfly keyboards, display cables that were too short and failed over time
  - paulmd 2y ago
    > Yes, I do. That was and continues to be a valid complaint, No, it doesn’t - because you can simply not use the tools if you don’t want. You can just order a $2 spudger off Amazon if you want, you don’t need the tools at all. It continues to be a completely invalid complaint that shows just how bad-faith the discussion about apple has become - it literally costs you nothing to not use the tools if you want, there is no downside to having apple make them available to people, and yet you guys still find a way to bitch about it. Moreover, despite some “bold” proclamations from the haters… no android vendors ever ended up making their oem tooling available to consumers at all. You have to use the Amazon spudger on your pixel, and you will fuck up the waterproofing when you do your repair, because the android phone won’t seal properly against water without the tools either. IPX sixtywho!? It’s literally a complete and total net positive: nothing was taken away from you, and you don’t need to use it, and it makes your life easier and produces a better repair if you want it. Apple went out of their way to both make the tooling available to normies who want to rent it or people who want to buy it for real. And people still bitch, and still think they come off better for having done so. Classic “hater” moment, in the Paul Graham sense. Anti-fanboys are real. https://paulgraham.com/fh.html https://paulgraham.com/fh.html Literally, for some people - the pelican cases with the tools are too big and heavy. And that’s enough to justify the hate. Again, great example of the point I was making in the original comment: people inserting their random hobby horse issues using apple as a foil. You don’t like how phones are made in general, so you’re using apple as a whipping boy for the issue even if it’s not really caused or worsened by the event in question etc. Even if the event in question is apple making that issue somewhat better, and is done worse by all the other vendors etc. Can’t buy tooling for a pixel at all, doing those repairs will simply break waterproofing without it, and you’re strictly better off having the ability to get access to the tooling if you decide you want it, but apple offering it is a flashpoint you can exploit for rhetorical advantage.
paulmd 2y ago
Actually to be fully clear, in many cases you have an anti-right: literally not only do you not have a right, but it’s illegal to circumvent technological restrictions intended to prevent the thing you want to do. As noxious as that whole thing is, it’s literally the law. I agree the outcome is horrifying of course… stallman was right all along, it’s either your device or it’s not. And legally speaking, we have decided it’s ok to go with “not”.

ToucanLoucan 2y ago

> Do you have a legal right to write software or run your own software for hardware you bought? I've never heard of such a thing. Ideally I'd like that, but I don't have such freedoms with the computers in my cars, for example, or the one that operates my furnace, or even for certain parts of my PC.

ClumsyPilot 2y ago
So you bought "a thing' but you can't control what it does, how it does it, you don't get to decide what data it collects or who can see that data. You aren't allowed to repair the "thing' because the software can detect you changed something and will refuse to boot. And whenever it suits the manufacturer, they will decide when the 'thing' is declared out of support and stops functioning. I would say you are not an owner then, you (and me) and just suckers that are paying for the party. Maybe it's a lease. But then we also pay when it breaks, so it more of a digital feudalism.

paulmd 2y ago

> Do you have a legal right to write software or run your own software for hardware you bought? No, obviously not. Do you have a right to run a custom OS on your PS5? Do you have a right to run a custom application on your cable set-top box? Etc. Such a right obviously doesn’t exist and most people generally are somewhere between “don’t care” and actively rejecting it for various reasons (hacking in games, content DRM, etc). It’s fine if you think there should be, but it continues this weird trend of using apple as a foil for complaining about random other issues that other vendors tend to be just as bad or oftentimes even worse about, simply because they’re a large company with a large group of anti-fans/haters who will readily nod along. Remember when the complaint was that the pelican case of factory OEM tools you could rent (or buy) to install your factory replacement screen was too big and bulky, meaning it was really just a plot to sabotage right to repair? https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/21/23079058/apple-self-service-iphone-repair-kit-hands-on https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/21/23079058/apple-self-servi...

dns_snek 2y ago
> Remember when the complaint was that the pelican case of factory OEM tools you could rent (or buy) to install your factory replacement screen was too big and bulky, meaning it was really just a plot to sabotage right to repair? Yes, I do. That was and continues to be a valid complaint, among all other anti-repair schemes Apple have come up with over the years. DRM for parts, complete unavailability of some commonly repaired parts, deliberate kneecapping of "Apple authorized service providers", leveraging the US customs to seize shipments of legitimate and/or unlabeled replacement parts as "counterfeits", gaslighting by official representatives on Apple's own forums about data recovery, sabotaging right to repair laws, and even denial of design issues[1] to weasel out of warranty repair just to name a few. All with the simple anti-competitive goal of making third party repair (both authorized and independent) a less attractive option due to artificially increased prices, timelines to repair, or scaremongering about privacy. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/12/weakened-right-to-repair-bill-is-signed-into-law-by-new-yorks-governor/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/12/weakened-right-to-re... https://www.pcgamer.com/ifixit-says-apples-iphone-14-is-literally-not-repairable-due-to-strict-parts-validation-rule/ https://www.pcgamer.com/ifixit-says-apples-iphone-14-is-lite... [1] Butterfly keyboards, display cables that were too short and failed over time
- paulmd 2y ago
  > Yes, I do. That was and continues to be a valid complaint, No, it doesn’t - because you can simply not use the tools if you don’t want. You can just order a $2 spudger off Amazon if you want, you don’t need the tools at all. It continues to be a completely invalid complaint that shows just how bad-faith the discussion about apple has become - it literally costs you nothing to not use the tools if you want, there is no downside to having apple make them available to people, and yet you guys still find a way to bitch about it. Moreover, despite some “bold” proclamations from the haters… no android vendors ever ended up making their oem tooling available to consumers at all. You have to use the Amazon spudger on your pixel, and you will fuck up the waterproofing when you do your repair, because the android phone won’t seal properly against water without the tools either. IPX sixtywho!? It’s literally a complete and total net positive: nothing was taken away from you, and you don’t need to use it, and it makes your life easier and produces a better repair if you want it. Apple went out of their way to both make the tooling available to normies who want to rent it or people who want to buy it for real. And people still bitch, and still think they come off better for having done so. Classic “hater” moment, in the Paul Graham sense. Anti-fanboys are real. https://paulgraham.com/fh.html https://paulgraham.com/fh.html Literally, for some people - the pelican cases with the tools are too big and heavy. And that’s enough to justify the hate. Again, great example of the point I was making in the original comment: people inserting their random hobby horse issues using apple as a foil. You don’t like how phones are made in general, so you’re using apple as a whipping boy for the issue even if it’s not really caused or worsened by the event in question etc. Even if the event in question is apple making that issue somewhat better, and is done worse by all the other vendors etc. Can’t buy tooling for a pixel at all, doing those repairs will simply break waterproofing without it, and you’re strictly better off having the ability to get access to the tooling if you decide you want it, but apple offering it is a flashpoint you can exploit for rhetorical advantage.

paulmd 2y ago

Actually to be fully clear, in many cases you have an anti-right: literally not only do you not have a right, but it’s illegal to circumvent technological restrictions intended to prevent the thing you want to do. As noxious as that whole thing is, it’s literally the law. I agree the outcome is horrifying of course… stallman was right all along, it’s either your device or it’s not. And legally speaking, we have decided it’s ok to go with “not”.