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Someone losing a benefit on short notice does not constitute an argument for tax-payer subsidization of that benefit. You know there is a whole continent where

Someone losing a benefit on short notice does not constitute an argument for tax-payer subsidization of that benefit. You know there is a whole continent where most people think of healthcare as a right, not a benefit. And the Hippocratic Oath doesn't mention anything like "only if they have money". And people in the wast majority of other professions don't usually take oaths. Healthcare and medicine are treated specially around the world. Isn't it odd how the US mandates car insurance but not health insurance?

Drbble 14y ago
Which part of the hippocratic oath mentions working for free? It only talks about what behavior is appropriate when rendering service, and the life debt to teachers. Car insurance is liability insurance. It is completely different. Doctors do carry liability insurance, for example.
- Jare 14y ago
  Doctors in Europe do not work for free, what kind of, er, uninformed question is that? Europe does not have free healthcare, it has universal healthcare. It is only free for those who can't pay for it - and believe me, nobody remotely sane envies them for that privilege.
kika 14y ago
And this whole continent is now sinking financially. I believe it's somehow related.
- Jare 14y ago
  Are there any data points or studies at all that leads you to that belief? Because I can't find any.
  - kika 14y ago
    Just a little common sense: social security expenditures in European countries account for 28% of GDP. In US it's 7% (!!11). Thanks for asking, btw, I knew it is bad, but I never even thought it is THAT bad. http://video.minpress.gr/wwwminpress/aboutgreece/aboutgreece_welfare_state.pdf http://video.minpress.gr/wwwminpress/aboutgreece/aboutgreece... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_(United_States) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_(United_States)
    - DanBC 14y ago
      Don't forget that US spends more money on healthcare than any other country. (2009 they spent 17.4% GDP, or $7960 per person.) Despite spending that money you have an unhealthy population (obesity especially a problem); not many doctors (2.4 per 1000 population, fewer than anywhere else except Japan). Brand name meds are more expensive. The top 30 drugs are more than twice the price in the US than in the UK. The US does a lousy job of handling long term illness. Preventable mortality among asthma sufferers between 5 and 39 are high, as are lower limb amputations for diabetics. (And diabetes is a considerable problem because of the amount of obesity.) People often mention excessive spending in US hospitals - lots of high tech equipment, good doctors, many tests, etc. US hospitals are more expensive than many other countries. US doctors get paid more than non-US colleagues (but this is the same for other high-paid workers in different industries.) US hospitals are more expensive even though the stays are shorter. What do you get for this money? The US does do a good job with some cancers - survival rates for breast cancer are very good. Expensive hospitals don't seem to be working in other areas - people with heart attacks are more than twice as likely to have bypass surgery or angioplasty if they're in the US than in Canada; but there's little evidence that US patients live longer. And some cancers (cervical) have poor outcomes in the US compared to other countries. Of course, collecting the money that people have to pay also costs money. The US has a high number of admin workers (2.2 per office based doctor). Collecting revenue was estimated to cost 12% of revenue by one doctor group. The US spends 50% more per person than the next highest spending countries, and more than double of most countries.
      - kika 14y ago
        I'm not saying that US healthcare is great. I'm saying that having a weak economy and spending 30% of GDP is the definite way to disaster. See, the difference is not in the quality, but in the fact that US (inefficiently) spends money that it has (well, borrowed from China, but who cares, China doesn't), while Greece spends money which it hasn't. While having an overall (from the glance of the beholder) better health "climate" (obesity seems to be a nonissue in Southern Europe, red wine and olive oil makes wonders compared to HFCS, chips and beer). I live in Bay Area, buy organic food and all that, but still can't get used to how sweet is everything sweet is in the US.
- orbitingpluto 14y ago
  Meanwhile in Canada...socialized medicine and a better economy.
  - kika 14y ago
    May be they found a perfect balance. I'm from the country where medical help is either free (covered by the government mandatory insurance) or pretty cheap. First thing we (me and my family) did when we came to US - maxed out our dental plans (and put a sizable chunk on top of it) to fix what THEY did.

Drbble 14y ago

Which part of the hippocratic oath mentions working for free? It only talks about what behavior is appropriate when rendering service, and the life debt to teachers. Car insurance is liability insurance. It is completely different. Doctors do carry liability insurance, for example.

Jare 14y ago
Doctors in Europe do not work for free, what kind of, er, uninformed question is that? Europe does not have free healthcare, it has universal healthcare. It is only free for those who can't pay for it - and believe me, nobody remotely sane envies them for that privilege.

kika 14y ago

And this whole continent is now sinking financially. I believe it's somehow related.

Jare 14y ago
Are there any data points or studies at all that leads you to that belief? Because I can't find any.
- kika 14y ago
  Just a little common sense: social security expenditures in European countries account for 28% of GDP. In US it's 7% (!!11). Thanks for asking, btw, I knew it is bad, but I never even thought it is THAT bad. http://video.minpress.gr/wwwminpress/aboutgreece/aboutgreece_welfare_state.pdf http://video.minpress.gr/wwwminpress/aboutgreece/aboutgreece... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_(United_States) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_(United_States)
  - DanBC 14y ago
    Don't forget that US spends more money on healthcare than any other country. (2009 they spent 17.4% GDP, or $7960 per person.) Despite spending that money you have an unhealthy population (obesity especially a problem); not many doctors (2.4 per 1000 population, fewer than anywhere else except Japan). Brand name meds are more expensive. The top 30 drugs are more than twice the price in the US than in the UK. The US does a lousy job of handling long term illness. Preventable mortality among asthma sufferers between 5 and 39 are high, as are lower limb amputations for diabetics. (And diabetes is a considerable problem because of the amount of obesity.) People often mention excessive spending in US hospitals - lots of high tech equipment, good doctors, many tests, etc. US hospitals are more expensive than many other countries. US doctors get paid more than non-US colleagues (but this is the same for other high-paid workers in different industries.) US hospitals are more expensive even though the stays are shorter. What do you get for this money? The US does do a good job with some cancers - survival rates for breast cancer are very good. Expensive hospitals don't seem to be working in other areas - people with heart attacks are more than twice as likely to have bypass surgery or angioplasty if they're in the US than in Canada; but there's little evidence that US patients live longer. And some cancers (cervical) have poor outcomes in the US compared to other countries. Of course, collecting the money that people have to pay also costs money. The US has a high number of admin workers (2.2 per office based doctor). Collecting revenue was estimated to cost 12% of revenue by one doctor group. The US spends 50% more per person than the next highest spending countries, and more than double of most countries.
    - kika 14y ago
      I'm not saying that US healthcare is great. I'm saying that having a weak economy and spending 30% of GDP is the definite way to disaster. See, the difference is not in the quality, but in the fact that US (inefficiently) spends money that it has (well, borrowed from China, but who cares, China doesn't), while Greece spends money which it hasn't. While having an overall (from the glance of the beholder) better health "climate" (obesity seems to be a nonissue in Southern Europe, red wine and olive oil makes wonders compared to HFCS, chips and beer). I live in Bay Area, buy organic food and all that, but still can't get used to how sweet is everything sweet is in the US.
orbitingpluto 14y ago
Meanwhile in Canada...socialized medicine and a better economy.
- kika 14y ago
  May be they found a perfect balance. I'm from the country where medical help is either free (covered by the government mandatory insurance) or pretty cheap. First thing we (me and my family) did when we came to US - maxed out our dental plans (and put a sizable chunk on top of it) to fix what THEY did.