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"The well-known Tiobe Index " [...] Dang. I stopped reading at this point.

by eliben 14y ago

sabat 14y ago
I've heard of that index before, and I'm skeptical of it. Ruby and Python waning? Not among any of the shops or programmers I know. Maybe if they qualified it: "Ruby and Python are declining in use for corporate enterprise applications on the Internet." Something like that; I'd believe it. IBM's website is probably not in Django; it's probably Java with Struts or something. The the DevOps movement alone, almost entirely based in Ruby and Python, is really expanding, and the call for programmers is increasing. Waning? Hah.
- 6ren 14y ago
  They're including iOS, not used much in the enterprise (so far), so that one isn't it. I think they're looking at overall programming, which is growing - an absolute increase in ruby/python would be a relative decline if the total is growing even faster. Make no mistake, iOS is growing very fast (iOS/android on ARM is disruptive, in its technical sense - i.e. like what PCs did to minicomputers). That said, the common wisdom is that triobe is rubbish.
- icoloma 14y ago
  These days I trust more the index of popular languages in GitHub: https://github.com/languages https://github.com/languages I like to see it like an index of "in which languages are we innovating" or "which projects are worth forking"
  - jonathansizz 14y ago
    I like to see GitGub as an index of "which languages have a culture of uploading code to GitHub?"
- batista 14y ago
  I've heard of that index before, and I'm skeptical of it. Ruby and Python waning? Not among any of the shops or programmers I know. That's the very definition of "anecdotal evidence". People working in the Smalltalk community could probably say the same, as the language was dying ("but the shops and programmers I know are doing just fine!"). The Tiobe is far from perfect, but it's better than mere anecdotal evidence. This is about trends and statistics, not something like "my project manager come in today and said he should not use Ruby anymore".
batista 14y ago
It's extremely rare than any insight whatsoever is to be found in a comment containing the line: "I stopped reading at this point". Yes, you have reservations about the Tiobe index. So use them as an excuse to prevent you learning anything new on the subject and ignoring all reasoning that might come in an article that mentions it...
- eliben 14y ago
  Yes, but an article about "the fall and rise of programming languages", in particular, that mentions Tiobe right at the start makes it clear that it's going to base its conclusions and observations on that worthless index. Search HN for Tiobe, and you'll find tons and tons of well-backed opinions.

"The well-known Tiobe Index " [...] Dang. I stopped reading at this point.

by eliben 14y ago

"The well-known Tiobe Index " [...] Dang. I stopped reading at this point.

sabat 14y ago

I've heard of that index before, and I'm skeptical of it. Ruby and Python waning? Not among any of the shops or programmers I know. Maybe if they qualified it: "Ruby and Python are declining in use for corporate enterprise applications on the Internet." Something like that; I'd believe it. IBM's website is probably not in Django; it's probably Java with Struts or something. The the DevOps movement alone, almost entirely based in Ruby and Python, is really expanding, and the call for programmers is increasing. Waning? Hah.

6ren 14y ago
They're including iOS, not used much in the enterprise (so far), so that one isn't it. I think they're looking at overall programming, which is growing - an absolute increase in ruby/python would be a relative decline if the total is growing even faster. Make no mistake, iOS is growing very fast (iOS/android on ARM is disruptive, in its technical sense - i.e. like what PCs did to minicomputers). That said, the common wisdom is that triobe is rubbish.
icoloma 14y ago
These days I trust more the index of popular languages in GitHub: https://github.com/languages https://github.com/languages I like to see it like an index of "in which languages are we innovating" or "which projects are worth forking"
- jonathansizz 14y ago
  I like to see GitGub as an index of "which languages have a culture of uploading code to GitHub?"
batista 14y ago
I've heard of that index before, and I'm skeptical of it. Ruby and Python waning? Not among any of the shops or programmers I know. That's the very definition of "anecdotal evidence". People working in the Smalltalk community could probably say the same, as the language was dying ("but the shops and programmers I know are doing just fine!"). The Tiobe is far from perfect, but it's better than mere anecdotal evidence. This is about trends and statistics, not something like "my project manager come in today and said he should not use Ruby anymore".

batista 14y ago

It's extremely rare than any insight whatsoever is to be found in a comment containing the line: "I stopped reading at this point". Yes, you have reservations about the Tiobe index. So use them as an excuse to prevent you learning anything new on the subject and ignoring all reasoning that might come in an article that mentions it...

eliben 14y ago
Yes, but an article about "the fall and rise of programming languages", in particular, that mentions Tiobe right at the start makes it clear that it's going to base its conclusions and observations on that worthless index. Search HN for Tiobe, and you'll find tons and tons of well-backed opinions.