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At least here in Brazil, I've never heard such arguments. Seems even more unlikely for non technical users. It's just their latest market campaign, as far as

At least here in Brazil, I've never heard such arguments. Seems even more unlikely for non technical users. It's just their latest market campaign, as far as I can tell. The vast majority of people buy iPhones because of the status it gives.

everly 2y ago
They famously had a standoff with the US gov't over the Secure Enclave. Marketing aside, all indications point to the iOS platform being the most secure mobile option (imo).
elzbardico 2y ago
This is a prejudiced take. Running AI tasks locally on the device definitely is a giant improvement for the user experience. But not only that, Apple CPUs are objectively leagues ahead of their competition in the mobile space. I am still using a IPhone released in 2020 with absolutely no appreciable slow down or losses in perceived performance. Because even a 4 years old IPhone still has specs that don't lag behind by much the equivalent Android phones, I still receive the latest OS updates, and because frankly, Android OS is mess. If I cared about status, I would have changed my phone already for a new one.
- kernal 2y ago
  >Apple CPUs are objectively leagues ahead of their competition in the mobile space This is a lie. The latest Android SoCs are just as powerful as the A series. >Because even a 4 years old IPhone still has specs that don't lag behind by much the equivalent Android phones, I still receive the latest OS updates, and because frankly, Android OS is mess. Samsung and Google offer 7 years of OS and security updates. I believe that beats the Apple policy.
  - martimarkov 2y ago
    Strangle Android 14 seems to not be available for s20 phone which was released in 2020? Or am I mistaken here?
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - Jtsummers 2y ago
    > Samsung and Google offer 7 years of OS and security updates. I believe that beats the Apple policy. On the second part: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPadOS_version_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPadOS_version_history The last iPads to stop getting OS updates (including security, to be consistent with what Samsung and Google are pledging) got 7 and 9 years of updates each (5th gen iPad and 1st gen iPad Pro). The last iPhones to lose support got about 7 years each (iPhone 8 and X). 6S, SE (1st), and 7 got 9 and 8 years of OS support with security updates. The 5S (released in 2013) last got a security update in early 2023, so also about 9 years, the 6 (2014) ended at the same time so let's call it 8 years. The 4S, 2011, got 8 years of OS support. 5 and 5C got 7 and 6 years of support (5C was 5 in a new case, so was always going to get a year less in support). Apple has not, that I've seen at least, ever established a long term support policy on iPhones and iPads, but the numbers show they're doing at least as well as what Samsung and Google are promising to do, but have not yet done. And they've been doing this for more than a decade now. EDIT: Reworked the iOS numbers a bit, down to the month (I was looking at years above and rounding, so this is more accurate). iOS support time by device for devices that cannot use the current iOS 17 (so the XS and above are not counted here) in months: 1st - 32 3G - 37 3GS - 56 4 - 48 4S - 93 5 - 81 5C - 69 5S - 112 6 - 100 6S - 102 SE - 96 7 - 90 8 - 78 X - 76 The average is 72.5 months, just over 6 years. If we knock out the first 2 phones (both have somewhat justifiable short support periods, massive hardware changes between each and their successor) the average jumps to just shy of 79 months, or about 6.5 years. The 8 and X look like regressions, but their last updates were just 2 months ago (March 21, 2024) so still a good chance their support period will increase and exceed the 7 year mark like every model since the 5S. We'll have to see if they get any more updates in November 2024 or later to see if they can hit the 7 year mark.
    - kernal 2y ago
      >The last iPads to stop getting OS updates (including security, to be consistent with what Samsung and Google are pledging) got 7 and 9 years of updates each (5th gen iPad and 1st gen iPad Pro). The last iPhones to lose support got about 7 years each (iPhone 8 and X). 6S, SE (1st), and 7 got 9 and 8 years of OS support with security updates. The 5S (released in 2013) last got a security update in early 2023, so also about 9 years, the 6 (2014) ended at the same time so let's call it 8 years. The 4S, 2011, got 8 years of OS support. 5 and 5C got 7 and 6 years of support (5C was 5 in a new case, so was always going to get a year less in support). These are very disingenuous numbers that don't tell the complete story. An iPhone 7 getting a single critical security patch does not take into account the hundreds of security patches it did not receive when it stopped receiving support. It received that special update because Apple likely was told or discovered it was being exploited in the wild. Google and Samsung now offer 7 years of OS upgrades and 84 months of full security patches. Selectively patching a phone that is out of the support window with a single security patch does not automatically increase its EOL support date.
- patall 2y ago
  > I am still using a IPhone released in 2020 with absolutely no appreciable slow down or losses in perceived performance. My Pixel 4a here is also going strong, only the battery is slowly getting worse. I mean, it's 2024, do phones really still get slow? The 4a is now past android updates, but that was promised after 3 years. But at 350 bucks, it was like 40% less than the cheapest iPhone mini at that time.
  - onemoresoop 2y ago
    > I mean, it's 2024, do phones really still get slow? Hardware is pretty beefed up but bloat keeps on growing, that is slowing things down considerably.
  - moneywoes 2y ago
    what about security updates?
- tick_tock_tick 2y ago
  > I am still using a IPhone released in 2020 with absolutely no appreciable slow down or losses in perceived performance. Only because Apple lost a lawsuit otherwise they'd have kept intentionally slowing it down.
  - noname120 2y ago
    This has been debunked.
    - FireBeyond 2y ago
      .... by Apple.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - noname120 2y ago
        See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batterygate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batterygate
        FireBeyond 2y ago
        Right. "By Apple". Apple says it made these changes for other reasons, honestly, truly. And if it happened to have the same effect, then that was unfortunate, and unintended. Only Apple really knows. But there was a slew of changes and reversals following the drama. "Oh, we'll implement notifications now", "Oh, we'll change the peak performance behavior", and "we will change and add additional diagnostics to make sure issues are battery related" certainly has a feel for a bunch of ex post facto rationalization of several things that seem, to me, that if it was truly a battery thing all along, would have been functional requirements.
dijit 2y ago
I never understood this argument. Theres no “status” to a brand of phone when the cheapest point of entry is comparable and the flagship is cheaper than the alternative flagship. Marketing in most of europe is chiefly not the same as the US though so maybe its a perspective thing. I just find it hard to really argue “status” when the last 4 iPhone generations are largely the same and cheaper than the Samsung flagships. At Elgiganten a Samsung S24 Ultra is 19,490 SEK[0]. The most expensive iPhone 15 pro max is 18,784 SEK at the same store[1]. [0]: https://nya.elgiganten.se/product/mobiler-tablets-smartklockor/mobiltelefon/samsung-galaxy-s24-ultra-5g-smartphone-12512gb-titanium-black/727303 https://nya.elgiganten.se/product/mobiler-tablets-smartklock... [1]: https://nya.elgiganten.se/product/mobiler-tablets-smartklockor/mobiltelefon/iphone-15-pro-max-5g-smartphone-512gb-bla-titan/673045 https://nya.elgiganten.se/product/mobiler-tablets-smartklock...
- pompino 2y ago
  Its not an argument, just ask why people lust after the latest iPhones in poor countries. They do it because they see rich people owning them. Unless you experience that, you won't really understand it.
- Draiken 2y ago
  My take is that it's like a fashion accessory. People buy Gucci for the brand, not the material or comfort. Rich people ask for the latest most expensive iPhone even if they're only going to use WhatsApp and Instagram on it. It's not because of privacy or functionality, it's simply to show off to everyone they can purchase it. Also to not stand out within their peers as the only one without it. As another content said: it's not an argument, it's a fact here.
  - Aerbil313 2y ago
    I have an iPhone so I guess I qualify as a rich person by your definition. I am also a software engineer. I cannot state enough how bogus that statement is. I've used both iPhone and Android, and recent flagships. iPhone is by far the easiest one to use. Speaking in more objective terms, iPhones have a coherent UI which maintains its consistency both throughout the OS and over the years. They're the most dumbed down phones and easiest to understand. I recommend iPhone to all my friends and relatives. There's obviously tons of people who see iPhone as a status item. They're right, because iPhone is expensive and only the rich can buy them. This doesn't mean iPhone is not the best option out there for a person who doesn't want to extensively customize his phone and just use it.
briandear 2y ago
The vast majority of people don’t. They buy because the ecosystem works. Not sure how I get status from a phone that nobody knows I have. I don’t wear it on a chain.
- Draiken 2y ago
  Could it possibly be different in Brazil? iPhones are not ubiquitous here, and they're way more expensive than other options.
veunes 2y ago
Yes, Apple has cultivated a certain brand image in some ways.

everly 2y ago

They famously had a standoff with the US gov't over the Secure Enclave. Marketing aside, all indications point to the iOS platform being the most secure mobile option (imo).

elzbardico 2y ago

This is a prejudiced take. Running AI tasks locally on the device definitely is a giant improvement for the user experience. But not only that, Apple CPUs are objectively leagues ahead of their competition in the mobile space. I am still using a IPhone released in 2020 with absolutely no appreciable slow down or losses in perceived performance. Because even a 4 years old IPhone still has specs that don't lag behind by much the equivalent Android phones, I still receive the latest OS updates, and because frankly, Android OS is mess. If I cared about status, I would have changed my phone already for a new one.

kernal 2y ago
>Apple CPUs are objectively leagues ahead of their competition in the mobile space This is a lie. The latest Android SoCs are just as powerful as the A series. >Because even a 4 years old IPhone still has specs that don't lag behind by much the equivalent Android phones, I still receive the latest OS updates, and because frankly, Android OS is mess. Samsung and Google offer 7 years of OS and security updates. I believe that beats the Apple policy.
- martimarkov 2y ago
  Strangle Android 14 seems to not be available for s20 phone which was released in 2020? Or am I mistaken here?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- Jtsummers 2y ago
  > Samsung and Google offer 7 years of OS and security updates. I believe that beats the Apple policy. On the second part: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPadOS_version_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPadOS_version_history The last iPads to stop getting OS updates (including security, to be consistent with what Samsung and Google are pledging) got 7 and 9 years of updates each (5th gen iPad and 1st gen iPad Pro). The last iPhones to lose support got about 7 years each (iPhone 8 and X). 6S, SE (1st), and 7 got 9 and 8 years of OS support with security updates. The 5S (released in 2013) last got a security update in early 2023, so also about 9 years, the 6 (2014) ended at the same time so let's call it 8 years. The 4S, 2011, got 8 years of OS support. 5 and 5C got 7 and 6 years of support (5C was 5 in a new case, so was always going to get a year less in support). Apple has not, that I've seen at least, ever established a long term support policy on iPhones and iPads, but the numbers show they're doing at least as well as what Samsung and Google are promising to do, but have not yet done. And they've been doing this for more than a decade now. EDIT: Reworked the iOS numbers a bit, down to the month (I was looking at years above and rounding, so this is more accurate). iOS support time by device for devices that cannot use the current iOS 17 (so the XS and above are not counted here) in months: 1st - 32 3G - 37 3GS - 56 4 - 48 4S - 93 5 - 81 5C - 69 5S - 112 6 - 100 6S - 102 SE - 96 7 - 90 8 - 78 X - 76 The average is 72.5 months, just over 6 years. If we knock out the first 2 phones (both have somewhat justifiable short support periods, massive hardware changes between each and their successor) the average jumps to just shy of 79 months, or about 6.5 years. The 8 and X look like regressions, but their last updates were just 2 months ago (March 21, 2024) so still a good chance their support period will increase and exceed the 7 year mark like every model since the 5S. We'll have to see if they get any more updates in November 2024 or later to see if they can hit the 7 year mark.
  - kernal 2y ago
    >The last iPads to stop getting OS updates (including security, to be consistent with what Samsung and Google are pledging) got 7 and 9 years of updates each (5th gen iPad and 1st gen iPad Pro). The last iPhones to lose support got about 7 years each (iPhone 8 and X). 6S, SE (1st), and 7 got 9 and 8 years of OS support with security updates. The 5S (released in 2013) last got a security update in early 2023, so also about 9 years, the 6 (2014) ended at the same time so let's call it 8 years. The 4S, 2011, got 8 years of OS support. 5 and 5C got 7 and 6 years of support (5C was 5 in a new case, so was always going to get a year less in support). These are very disingenuous numbers that don't tell the complete story. An iPhone 7 getting a single critical security patch does not take into account the hundreds of security patches it did not receive when it stopped receiving support. It received that special update because Apple likely was told or discovered it was being exploited in the wild. Google and Samsung now offer 7 years of OS upgrades and 84 months of full security patches. Selectively patching a phone that is out of the support window with a single security patch does not automatically increase its EOL support date.
patall 2y ago
> I am still using a IPhone released in 2020 with absolutely no appreciable slow down or losses in perceived performance. My Pixel 4a here is also going strong, only the battery is slowly getting worse. I mean, it's 2024, do phones really still get slow? The 4a is now past android updates, but that was promised after 3 years. But at 350 bucks, it was like 40% less than the cheapest iPhone mini at that time.
- onemoresoop 2y ago
  > I mean, it's 2024, do phones really still get slow? Hardware is pretty beefed up but bloat keeps on growing, that is slowing things down considerably.
- moneywoes 2y ago
  what about security updates?
tick_tock_tick 2y ago
> I am still using a IPhone released in 2020 with absolutely no appreciable slow down or losses in perceived performance. Only because Apple lost a lawsuit otherwise they'd have kept intentionally slowing it down.
- noname120 2y ago
  This has been debunked.
  - FireBeyond 2y ago
    .... by Apple.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - noname120 2y ago
      See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batterygate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batterygate
      - FireBeyond 2y ago
        Right. "By Apple". Apple says it made these changes for other reasons, honestly, truly. And if it happened to have the same effect, then that was unfortunate, and unintended. Only Apple really knows. But there was a slew of changes and reversals following the drama. "Oh, we'll implement notifications now", "Oh, we'll change the peak performance behavior", and "we will change and add additional diagnostics to make sure issues are battery related" certainly has a feel for a bunch of ex post facto rationalization of several things that seem, to me, that if it was truly a battery thing all along, would have been functional requirements.

dijit 2y ago

I never understood this argument. Theres no “status” to a brand of phone when the cheapest point of entry is comparable and the flagship is cheaper than the alternative flagship. Marketing in most of europe is chiefly not the same as the US though so maybe its a perspective thing. I just find it hard to really argue “status” when the last 4 iPhone generations are largely the same and cheaper than the Samsung flagships. At Elgiganten a Samsung S24 Ultra is 19,490 SEK[0]. The most expensive iPhone 15 pro max is 18,784 SEK at the same store[1]. [0]: https://nya.elgiganten.se/product/mobiler-tablets-smartklockor/mobiltelefon/samsung-galaxy-s24-ultra-5g-smartphone-12512gb-titanium-black/727303 https://nya.elgiganten.se/product/mobiler-tablets-smartklock... [1]: https://nya.elgiganten.se/product/mobiler-tablets-smartklockor/mobiltelefon/iphone-15-pro-max-5g-smartphone-512gb-bla-titan/673045 https://nya.elgiganten.se/product/mobiler-tablets-smartklock...

pompino 2y ago
Its not an argument, just ask why people lust after the latest iPhones in poor countries. They do it because they see rich people owning them. Unless you experience that, you won't really understand it.
Draiken 2y ago
My take is that it's like a fashion accessory. People buy Gucci for the brand, not the material or comfort. Rich people ask for the latest most expensive iPhone even if they're only going to use WhatsApp and Instagram on it. It's not because of privacy or functionality, it's simply to show off to everyone they can purchase it. Also to not stand out within their peers as the only one without it. As another content said: it's not an argument, it's a fact here.
- Aerbil313 2y ago
  I have an iPhone so I guess I qualify as a rich person by your definition. I am also a software engineer. I cannot state enough how bogus that statement is. I've used both iPhone and Android, and recent flagships. iPhone is by far the easiest one to use. Speaking in more objective terms, iPhones have a coherent UI which maintains its consistency both throughout the OS and over the years. They're the most dumbed down phones and easiest to understand. I recommend iPhone to all my friends and relatives. There's obviously tons of people who see iPhone as a status item. They're right, because iPhone is expensive and only the rich can buy them. This doesn't mean iPhone is not the best option out there for a person who doesn't want to extensively customize his phone and just use it.

briandear 2y ago

The vast majority of people don’t. They buy because the ecosystem works. Not sure how I get status from a phone that nobody knows I have. I don’t wear it on a chain.

Draiken 2y ago
Could it possibly be different in Brazil? iPhones are not ubiquitous here, and they're way more expensive than other options.

veunes 2y ago

Yes, Apple has cultivated a certain brand image in some ways.