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> The way Apple handles storage and memory means ENTIRE devices need to be replaced when a new larger SSD or a few more gigs of memory are all that's really nee

by _19qg 2y ago

> The way Apple handles storage and memory means ENTIRE devices need to be replaced when a new larger SSD or a few more gigs of memory are all that's really needed to keep a device in service for a few years longer. Most iPads are vastly overpowered and last for a long time. If someone needs more power/storage, then one usually passes them to the next person which might use it for many more years. My old iPad Air 2 from 2024 is still used. > Even the iPad could probably use an M.2 SSD! Most users don't need that. I'm using fixed storage in my Macs (and iPads) for years. I've attached additional storage to USB-C for many years without problems.

sangnoir 2y ago
> Most iPads are vastly overpowered and last for a long time. Which is why it's a shame they have poor repairability
mcphage 2y ago
> My old iPad Air 2 from 2024 is still used. That doesn't really make a case for the device's longevity :-)
- lispm 2y ago
  True, the thing is from 2014.
  - mcphage 2y ago
    Ah, that sounds quite a bit better!
saurik 2y ago
My original iPad Pro from 2015 is still used and is still perfect for not just everything I want to do with it but always has no issue with new stuff... except, Apple finally decided that it won't get OS upgrades, and so the few bits of software on it that I use are going to rot -- even the web browser these days doesn't work long as people no longer believe in progressive enhancement... the few-year old version of iOS on my iPhone would just render blank white pages for major websites, which is what finally forced me to upgrade: the device has devolved to not much more than a dumb phone -- and so this iPad, with its glorious large screen, will soon be trash. If I could install an alternative third-party web browser -- though it would have to be one by someone who also understood the importance of supporting the old OS -- or if I could pitch in and help maintain the operating system myself, even using binary patches if required (look into who I am if you laugh here, and then stop laughing: we can do quite a lot without source code) I would be able to keep using it, but only Apple can save it now, and they have absolutely zero in incentive to do so.
- paulmd 2y ago
  Yes, but android devices still have objectively inferior software support lifecycles. They have objectively inferior parts-supply lifecycles too, Android tablets and android phones do not offer an m.2 port either, or swappable memory, or whatever the silly ask is this week. iPhones are literally compared against objective perfection while all their competitors are worse on every single repair-lifecycle outcome. More iOS devices are used for longer than most android devices in the real world, and your n=1 cherry-picked example of your android tablet from 2008 isn’t really a useful or meaningful rebuttal.
  - saurik 2y ago
    I don't understand where this 2008 Android tablet storyline came from? I didn't mention Android, nor did I mention 2008, nor do I believe that there existed an Android tablet of any form in 2008?... I certainly owned some early Android Honeycomb tablets, but neither they--nor my iPads from that era, by the way--are still usefully in service. I honestly do not at all understand what you are replying to :(. I am just saying that Apple has gone out of their way to lock me out of being able to maintain this perfectly good, old iPad Pro. This is interesting as, frankly, the iPad hasn't really aged as a platform now in almost a decade, seemingly as almost no one is making software for it which needs new hardware (...likely in no small part due to Apple's restrictions on the otherwise very-general device, but the reasons don't matter much). And yeah, sure: I happily agree that Android devices tend to be worse on many of these fronts... but, they also kind of don't matter, as effectively no one buys Android tablets and frankly no one wants to buy an Android tablet ;P which is a fact I don't see changing in the near future. Insisting that I should redirect my frustrations with Apple onto some no-name Android tablet maker is a big distraction from trying to make a difference in the world.
    - paulmd 2y ago
      I’m confused by your confusion - not only is it the topic of this thread, it’s also literally the comment you were replying to. > Most iPads are vastly overpowered and last for a long time. If someone needs more power/storage, then one usually passes them to the next person which might use it for many more years. like again, this is in the context of tablets. Can you show a current-production model of an expandable, upgradable alternative from a vendor like google or Samsung or similar? If not, I think it’s pretty clearly just wishful thinking and double-standards. Apple doesn’t need to solve the whole right-to-repair problem by themselves to go above and beyond the very low bar set by the market alternative vendors. Android’s lifecycle is abysmal for repairability and waste in practice - they are even more disposable devices than the iPad, with shorter software lifecycles and shorter parts lifecycles and much lower volume/worse parts commonality. The wishful ability to install a custom rom and some Amazon knockoff parts doesn’t actually make that a significant factor within the actual realized lifecycle of these devices.
llmblockchain 2y ago
They don't "last for a long time". I have an ipad that is barely five years old and no longer receives OS updates. You can't even install apps on it (like Netflix, or Youtube) because the OS is "unsupported." Apple is running a HaaS (Hardware as-a Service) and your subscription is somewhere between two to three years.
- gandalfgreybeer 2y ago
  > I have an ipad that is barely five years old and no longer receives OS updates. You can't even install apps on it (like Netflix, or Youtube) because the OS is "unsupported." I’m currentLy using a 2016 iPad Pro (so 8 years running) and I use it for both Netflix and YouTube. It’s also still getting updates. Next year will be the first where it seems to have security updates only as well. Edit: I also just booted up an even older iPhone 5 and both apps work

by _19qg 2y ago

sangnoir 2y ago

> Most iPads are vastly overpowered and last for a long time. Which is why it's a shame they have poor repairability

mcphage 2y ago

> My old iPad Air 2 from 2024 is still used. That doesn't really make a case for the device's longevity :-)

lispm 2y ago
True, the thing is from 2014.
- mcphage 2y ago
  Ah, that sounds quite a bit better!

saurik 2y ago

My original iPad Pro from 2015 is still used and is still perfect for not just everything I want to do with it but always has no issue with new stuff... except, Apple finally decided that it won't get OS upgrades, and so the few bits of software on it that I use are going to rot -- even the web browser these days doesn't work long as people no longer believe in progressive enhancement... the few-year old version of iOS on my iPhone would just render blank white pages for major websites, which is what finally forced me to upgrade: the device has devolved to not much more than a dumb phone -- and so this iPad, with its glorious large screen, will soon be trash. If I could install an alternative third-party web browser -- though it would have to be one by someone who also understood the importance of supporting the old OS -- or if I could pitch in and help maintain the operating system myself, even using binary patches if required (look into who I am if you laugh here, and then stop laughing: we can do quite a lot without source code) I would be able to keep using it, but only Apple can save it now, and they have absolutely zero in incentive to do so.

paulmd 2y ago
Yes, but android devices still have objectively inferior software support lifecycles. They have objectively inferior parts-supply lifecycles too, Android tablets and android phones do not offer an m.2 port either, or swappable memory, or whatever the silly ask is this week. iPhones are literally compared against objective perfection while all their competitors are worse on every single repair-lifecycle outcome. More iOS devices are used for longer than most android devices in the real world, and your n=1 cherry-picked example of your android tablet from 2008 isn’t really a useful or meaningful rebuttal.
- saurik 2y ago
  I don't understand where this 2008 Android tablet storyline came from? I didn't mention Android, nor did I mention 2008, nor do I believe that there existed an Android tablet of any form in 2008?... I certainly owned some early Android Honeycomb tablets, but neither they--nor my iPads from that era, by the way--are still usefully in service. I honestly do not at all understand what you are replying to :(. I am just saying that Apple has gone out of their way to lock me out of being able to maintain this perfectly good, old iPad Pro. This is interesting as, frankly, the iPad hasn't really aged as a platform now in almost a decade, seemingly as almost no one is making software for it which needs new hardware (...likely in no small part due to Apple's restrictions on the otherwise very-general device, but the reasons don't matter much). And yeah, sure: I happily agree that Android devices tend to be worse on many of these fronts... but, they also kind of don't matter, as effectively no one buys Android tablets and frankly no one wants to buy an Android tablet ;P which is a fact I don't see changing in the near future. Insisting that I should redirect my frustrations with Apple onto some no-name Android tablet maker is a big distraction from trying to make a difference in the world.
  - paulmd 2y ago
    I’m confused by your confusion - not only is it the topic of this thread, it’s also literally the comment you were replying to. > Most iPads are vastly overpowered and last for a long time. If someone needs more power/storage, then one usually passes them to the next person which might use it for many more years. like again, this is in the context of tablets. Can you show a current-production model of an expandable, upgradable alternative from a vendor like google or Samsung or similar? If not, I think it’s pretty clearly just wishful thinking and double-standards. Apple doesn’t need to solve the whole right-to-repair problem by themselves to go above and beyond the very low bar set by the market alternative vendors. Android’s lifecycle is abysmal for repairability and waste in practice - they are even more disposable devices than the iPad, with shorter software lifecycles and shorter parts lifecycles and much lower volume/worse parts commonality. The wishful ability to install a custom rom and some Amazon knockoff parts doesn’t actually make that a significant factor within the actual realized lifecycle of these devices.

llmblockchain 2y ago

They don't "last for a long time". I have an ipad that is barely five years old and no longer receives OS updates. You can't even install apps on it (like Netflix, or Youtube) because the OS is "unsupported." Apple is running a HaaS (Hardware as-a Service) and your subscription is somewhere between two to three years.

gandalfgreybeer 2y ago
> I have an ipad that is barely five years old and no longer receives OS updates. You can't even install apps on it (like Netflix, or Youtube) because the OS is "unsupported." I’m currentLy using a 2016 iPad Pro (so 8 years running) and I use it for both Netflix and YouTube. It’s also still getting updates. Next year will be the first where it seems to have security updates only as well. Edit: I also just booted up an even older iPhone 5 and both apps work